Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

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Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#1 » Dec 07 2017 04:12

Hello.
So my friends and I are playing a campaign with several battles at 1k, 1,5k and 2k points.
There is an Astra Militarum player, who fields about 4/5 Leman at 1k and 1,5k, and more at 2k (besides other tanks like some Tank Commanders).
I'm impressed with the points efficiency of the Leman.
It's such a cheap threat!
And I'm concerned about how can I engage them.
The Space Marines players used Lascannon, in the form of Devastators. Cheap and reliable. With S9 need 3+ to wound.
But us? I field 2+ QFC at any range of points (usually 2 at 1k/1,5k and 3 at 1,5k or 2k), but the S8 makes them not so reliable accounting the T8 of the Leman.
We do some math and we need 2 QFC just to almost kill a Leman. (At +9": Manta Strike).
A Leman is cheaper than 2 QFC, more survivable, and he can spam them. If I just Manta the QFCs (or just fly towards the Leman) he just need to wipe them with the Lascannons. Not to mention others units in his army.
I mean, I don't see an effective way to deal with Leman.
I think that the T8 is the problem (combined with our lack of S9+ shots).
Any ideas?
How are you dealing with Leman?
Thank you in advance.

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Aspiring Commander
Shas'Saal
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#2 » Dec 07 2017 04:26

How I've dealt with lots of tanks is to drop QFCs, and CIB crisis suits 9 inches away, and then charge the car park. Any overmatch can be bounced onto accompanying drones, and assuming they're staying close enough to each other, pile in and engage multiple russes with one squad of suits. Means they have to waste a turn running away :)
'We act as one, and united we cannot fall'

-Commander Shadowsun

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Yojimbob
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#3 » Dec 07 2017 05:02

Yup, charge them with anything like infantry or devilfish and use the QFC's to just keep punishing them one at a time while the rest of the army picks off the lighter targets and grabs objectives.

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leo1925
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#4 » Dec 07 2017 06:59

As the others have said, charge them. The leman russ is quite an efficient tank and can be equipped to do various tasks and has many weapons, it's a very good choice for it's points (especially with some regiments).
Their only weakness is the lack of fly coupled with the guard's suckiness in melee combat (they don't suck as much as we do but they still suck), that means that you should charge them and make the best use of our fly keyword (remember to charge them with drones also).

The other solution is to drown them in gun drones fire but that solution is pretty much our answer to everything.


Aspiring Commander wrote:Means they have to waste a turn running away :)


Even then, our commanders, drones and crisis teams can keep up with them and re-charge them.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#5 » Dec 07 2017 09:32

I agree here. Leman Russes tend to be just like other tanks- Fusion Blasters and Ion weapons are the way to go. Our S7 weapons (Missile Pods and non-overcharged Ion weapons) will fare much worse against Leman Russes due to their wounding on 5+, so keep that in mind.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#6 » Dec 08 2017 07:03

Also what regiment is he using? Because mordian can overwatch at full BS so be careful what you charge them with because a battle cannon will flatten a Commander if he can get 3 hits and because it's +1 to hit with the stratagem overcharged plasma can't overheat which is also deadly

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leo1925
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#7 » Dec 08 2017 07:22

Nymphomanius wrote:Also what regiment is he using? Because mordian can overwatch at full BS so be careful what you charge them with because a battle cannon will flatten a Commander if he can get 3 hits and because it's +1 to hit with the stratagem overcharged plasma can't overheat which is also deadly


Mordians need a second tank at 6" and use a stratagem in order to overwatch at 4+ but you are correct.
Of course mordian isn't the best regiment so I don't think we will be seeing them all that often.

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BibiFloris
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#8 » Dec 08 2017 07:58

My recommendations is the Y’vahra it can deal with a lemanruss or similar in one round asuming overcharge. If you feel luck the Flamer itself can (barring lucky rolls) take it out a lemanruss by itself, giving the ion weapon room to fire at something else. On top, it is very sturdy especial if you use shield drones with it. Downside it is a bullet/plasma/exterminuats magnet. and very pricy +- 400 pts. (and being forgeworld) Personally, I use my GW riptide to represent the FW variants that I feel like playing that day.
All praise the greater good or fall under its might.
Sorry for all of my English mistakes made and to make.

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leo1925
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#9 » Dec 09 2017 08:15

BibiFloris wrote:My recommendations is the Y’vahra it can deal with a lemanruss or similar in one round asuming overcharge. If you feel luck the Flamer itself can (barring lucky rolls) take it out a lemanruss by itself, giving the ion weapon room to fire at something else. On top, it is very sturdy especial if you use shield drones with it. Downside it is a bullet/plasma/exterminuats magnet. and very pricy +- 400 pts. (and being forgeworld) Personally, I use my GW riptide to represent the FW variants that I feel like playing that day.


Even with ATS, you would need to be extremely lucky in order for the y'vahra's flamer to take out a leman russ, with average rolls (on wounding and saves), you would need to roll 15 on the 3d6.

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#10 » Dec 09 2017 08:19

leo1925 wrote:
BibiFloris wrote:My recommendations is the Y’vahra it can deal with a lemanruss or similar in one round asuming overcharge. If you feel luck the Flamer itself can (barring lucky rolls) take it out a lemanruss by itself, giving the ion weapon room to fire at something else. On top, it is very sturdy especial if you use shield drones with it. Downside it is a bullet/plasma/exterminuats magnet. and very pricy +- 400 pts. (and being forgeworld) Personally, I use my GW riptide to represent the FW variants that I feel like playing that day.


Even with ATS, you would need to be extremely lucky in order for the y'vahra's flamer to take out a leman russ, with average rolls (on wounding and saves), you would need to roll 15 on the 3d6.

Yeah it looks like the Y'vahra's flamer alone will deal about ~9 damage, while the Ionic Discharge Cannon will deal ~6. Both guns firing together can definitely kill a Leman Russ, but I agree, I wouldn't count on the flamer alone.

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BibiFloris
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#11 » Dec 09 2017 05:00

I sad lucky rolls. I meant lucky rolls.

In a void i would not recoment to split fire but the battelfield is always messier then mathhammer.
All praise the greater good or fall under its might.
Sorry for all of my English mistakes made and to make.

fraction64
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#12 » Dec 13 2017 03:14

Is he not using screen units to protect from deepstrikers and even stealth suits?
Every guard player I know uses tons of screening units. Also a few use bullgryn units to act as counter melee. Getting the charge on a tank or two could be a short term victory if a squad of bullgryn can charge in without fear of overwatch and wipe the suits.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#13 » Dec 14 2017 11:54

fraction64 wrote:Is he not using screen units to protect from deepstrikers and even stealth suits?
Every guard player I know uses tons of screening units. Also a few use bullgryn units to act as counter melee. Getting the charge on a tank or two could be a short term victory if a squad of bullgryn can charge in without fear of overwatch and wipe the suits.


With 5 Russ in 1k points? It's tank spam no room for anything that isn't T8 and objective secured :evil:

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#14 » Dec 14 2017 04:37

Hello, thank you all for the responses.
So, we already started the match yesterdat. It is in a halt now due to jobs and kids: we will continue it tomorrow or so.
So, he brings something like:

3 Leman Russ with Punisher (regiment that count half the wounds to cripple)
2 Leman Russ Tank Commanders (same)
4 x (3x mortar)
4 or 5 units of intantry with: Lasscannon, Meltagun and plasma. (add weapon range regiment)
Yarrick
2 others commanders

My list:

3 x QFC + 2 SD
3 x XV8 9xCIB
6 x 5GD+1SD
2 x Paths 5xML
3 x Paths 2xML 3xIon
1 x Y'Vahra + TL + ATS
1 x GhostK 1xFC 2xFB + TL + DC + 2xMV5

I have the 1st turn. In which I only wound with a lucky rolls from Drones and IonPaths a Leman (I did 4 wounds).
In their first turn, he deleted: 2x Paths x5ML, 2x Paths 2xML 3Ion, 1x 5GD+SD, and some others drones from others units.
All my units were under cover, but his 40 shots from his Gatling is overkill.
He shot some mortars and light fire over the Y'Vahra with no succes.

The main problem is that he started with 4 objetives in his side of the table (controlling all of them), and only 2 in mine.
And the mission rolled is the n 6 from Vortex, the one with 6 objetives, 5, 4, and so on.
And from the objetives that I rolled are 2 impossibles for me (cast pysich and other I don't remember) so I can't draw new ones, and he had one that give him VP for killing a unit in the shooting phase, other that give him VP if he kill a unit in my deployment zone from his, and make first blood, so he now has 4 VP (2 incoming due to control points objetives) and I have 1.
Currently I'm running towars his forces, but I don't think I can make VP enough in the rest of the match.
The Y'Vahra are 2 turns away. I don't know if Manta the QFCs and XV8 now or wait till the XV109 and XV95. I think I will do it now (in my 2nd turn), for if I contniue to wait, I fear there will no drones or maybe GK when the Manta arrives.

Aspiring Commander wrote:How I've dealt with lots of tanks is to drop QFCs, and CIB crisis suits 9 inches away, and then charge the car park. Any overmatch can be bounced onto accompanying drones, and assuming they're staying close enough to each other, pile in and engage multiple russes with one squad of suits. Means they have to waste a turn running away :)


Yojimbob wrote:Yup, charge them with anything like infantry or devilfish and use the QFC's to just keep punishing them one at a time while the rest of the army picks off the lighter targets and grabs objectives.


Yeah, the charge sems good; but he has 3x Heavy Flamers in all his Leman.

Arka0415 wrote:I agree here. Leman Russes tend to be just like other tanks- Fusion Blasters and Ion weapons are the way to go. Our S7 weapons (Missile Pods and non-overcharged Ion weapons) will fare much worse against Leman Russes due to their wounding on 5+, so keep that in mind.


Yeah, I'm really impressed with the IonPaths performance. With Overcharge they did pretty well. Pitty they all have died now. =(

Nymphomanius wrote:Also what regiment is he using? Because mordian can overwatch at full BS so be careful what you charge them with because a battle cannon will flatten a Commander if he can get 3 hits and because it's +1 to hit with the stratagem overcharged plasma can't overheat which is also deadly


I don't remember the name: Vostroyan? He uses 2: one that give his units more weapon range, and other that give his tank "more wounds" in terms of penalties.

BibiFloris wrote:My recommendations is the Y’vahra it can deal with a lemanruss or similar in one round asuming overcharge.


Yeah, I'm using her. I hope for her to perform well :lucky:

fraction64 wrote:Is he not using screen units to protect from deepstrikers and even stealth suits?
Every guard player I know uses tons of screening units. Also a few use bullgryn units to act as counter melee. Getting the charge on a tank or two could be a short term victory if a squad of bullgryn can charge in without fear of overwatch and wipe the suits.


He field all his troops denying the Manta over the enemy lines. The only Manta option that I have is in front of his troops.
And yes, he is using many cheap troops.

Also the Commander's orders (2 per turn/ per commander + Relic that give him more orders) are REALLY nasty.
And he has plenty of CP (11), while I have 6 (5 left), and the mission say that after the 3th turn the Stratagems cost twice CP.
Really hard game, but I'm keeping it up!

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leo1925
Shas
Posts: 110

Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#15 » Dec 14 2017 05:50

He made his tanks Valhallans and his infantry Vostroyans.

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#16 » Dec 20 2017 07:00

Well, in the Manta Strike turn my troops manage to destroy 2 Leman Russ, and other 2 Leman Russ in the next turn.
Now the match is paused again.
He has 1 Leman Russ Tank Commander left and many many troops (4 mortar teams, and other 4 infantry units).
I have only the suits remaining. (With two Pathfinders and maybe five Drones) and is his shooting phase so I expect hard retaliation.
But hey! The army do pretty well after all.
I haven't chance to win due the Victory Points conditions from the misión, (he is already winning 6 - 1), but at least I'm sure that I can make a stand against him.
Well, this threads became a kind of a battle report, ja. Sorry for that.

I'm impressed with the Y'vahra performance. She was great (and eat all the major fire of the Astra; which was then past to drones).

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 118

Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#17 » Jan 01 2018 04:30

I tabled him!
I'm very happy with the army performance.
The Y'vahra was great. Really amusing.
And I really love the 3CIB Crisis Suits. Very versatile, capable of deal with a wide range of enemies.

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gunrock
Shas
Posts: 109

Re: Dealing with Leman Russ Tanks

Post#18 » Jan 01 2018 05:11

Kerrygan wrote:I tabled him!
I'm very happy with the army performance.
The Y'vahra was great. Really amusing.
And I really love the 3CIB Crisis Suits. Very versatile, capable of deal with a wide range of enemies.


Grats! Hey,I'm running planning on running a similar list (minus the ghostkeel, more xv-8 w. CIB, and a few strike teams at 2k) I just had a few questions, because this match-up scares me a bit.

- How much fire did the Y'Vahra take the first few turns? Are you running shield drones to protect it (and if so how many?) or just relying on the six gun drones to soak up wounds?

- Did you feel the need for stealth teams to get past screening units? Were you able to punch through just with CIB?

- Ghostkeel worth it? (as opposed to more XV-8s/drones/commanders)

- Did you loose marker light support ( and if so when and did it slow you down with so many ion weapons)?

Good to hear tau takin' it to the Emperor!
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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