Fighting the Red Harvest: Necron tactics

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Taipan
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Fighting the Red Harvest: Necron tactics

Post#1 » Aug 13 2006 09:18

ok, since im now dividing my original post, now locked, into 2, this is the other half

i know there are heaps of other posts around on this, but i want to put forward a few radical (or completely obvious, depends eh ;) ) theories on how to fight Necrontyr.

now, a few quick points

people seem to treat necrons in two ways

1: They are marines, with some nasty specialist units and a big bastard of a tower which can spout heaps of death out to 12". Oh and they have crazy gods, but in all other respects, they are pretty much SM a la undead.

2: Oh *BAD WORD DELETED* me, run run run while you can, nobody can beat them, just forefeit the game :? :eek: :::( :dead:

basically, i don't agree with either of these

my analysis of necrons is as follows.

1. There are 2 ways they can get units into your face, VoD and Monolith. However, WBB and the "roll a 6 to hit/wound you are *BAD WORD DELETED*" is grossly overrated

2. They have nasty fast attack, but useless elites (basically, point for point, and tactically, immortals lose compared to destroyers. Same goes for pariahs. Flayed ones are the only dangerous ones, and they have no gun :crafty: )

3. C'Tan are the biggest point sink. Nobody even tries to kill them, so if your Necron opponent brings the Nightbringer, laugh: you will be able to cause phase out a lot faster. If they bring the Deciever :-? :? you are slightly screwed, but the "i get to move one unit 12" further than normal" is a bonus for our skimmers (due to the rules for decoys etc :evil: ) and for troops, against necrons all troops barring Kroot are easily expendable. The main concern with the Deciever is that it will move crisis and HQ around. Annoying, but if you put shield drones on the Tm L, you'll have a chance (necron flayers are only S4 AP5, and out of 20 shots only 2-3 will roll a 6. Saved by the drones, this equates to 2 dead drones and maybe a wound on one of the Shas'ui. Big whoop, he's now in rapid fire range for plasma and for fusion shots :evil: )

4. Monolith is overrated, outside of 12" so long as everything moves it can't do much. Put railgun into it, ignore it otherwise

5. Kill all destroyers!

6. Ignore Tomb Spyders, except with rail (if it can be spared)

7. Kill the Lord! Always dedicate railguns to the task, you'll be thankful you killed the Lord later (with Res. Orb and VoD :eek: )

well, i'll make this more coherent (or less crack induced, one of the two :nice: ) later, gotta jet

:crafty:

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Post#2 » Aug 14 2006 04:58

I dunno, for me this is still a collection of the obvious Necron facts, not a Tactica.
And there are also a few things that make me wonder about your experience with necrons. First of all, why is the Monolith not dangerous ? Have you ever had an opponent Deep-Strike 2 Monoliths into the middle of your army and teleport in 40 Warriors ? Believe me, for Tau that means game over, especially if he's got a Lord with VoD and 10 Immortals (these guys, contrary to what you wrote, are deadly beyond compare. And you cannot compare them to Destroyers, as they fulfill different roles entirely).

What you need to do, apart from play against tough Necron lists, is not only to say what to do, but how to do it.

I don't want sound arrogant here, but read my Tactica: World Eaters, or Spooky's Tactica: Iron Warriors or some of the other Tacticas knocking around. That should show you how a Tactica should be, I hope.
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Post#3 » Aug 14 2006 05:23

well, i can't be bothered reading through 8 pages of thread (ie what happened last time).

*** which is why it was locked -kai***

im not saying anything new initially, im just trying to get responses

now, i a few things ive picked up on

1. Seekers. Have the ability to kill Dreaddy's if they hit side armour, so im thinking that destroyers will be easier to kill. The alternative to firing seekers at destroyers is to railgun them, and while 3 Twin-linked should kill 3 of them (ie my BASS team) , i can't field enough to kill 15 of them in one turn. So, seekers it is.

2. Joined like a Siamese twin to seekers is the problem of markerlights. PF die too quick, Stealths are extremely expensive, FW die at the same rate as PF. Sniper drones mount S6 AP3, TL and a markerlight each. However, thats a Ionhead i can't field if i play with 3 teams (seriously, if your wasting a whole heavy slot, whose going to take less than 3?). On the other hand, thats 9 markerlights at BS4. Better than PF, but heavy support problem. So, what should i do here?

3. Aside from spamming Helios config Crisis, what other loadouts on Crisis work well against Necrons? Is Fireknife any good against Destroyers?

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Post#4 » Aug 14 2006 05:34

1 sniper team consits of one markerlight. so you have 3 markers as BS4 not 9

seriously? against necrons Sniper teams ARE your best friend.
helios is to short ranged so fireknife

i faced an army like that once, is was a pain and you cant deny shots because of there mobility...
so seekers, snipers, and fireknife (centurion HQ), lots'O kroot as they tie the destroyers up in assult keepign them still and not shooting

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Post#5 » Aug 14 2006 07:23

no, because each sniper drone has a markerlight

it can choose to fire it or its rail rifle

so, 3 sniper drones in a team, 3 teams

9 markers, at BS4

that means about 6 markerlight hits, which is all i need+the FW team and the Stealth team markers to fire off all my seekers in one go

i dunno, keeping FB to kill nasty suprises like Wraiths and Flayed Ones, not to mention insta-killing 1 warrior per turn will come in handy, partulary if im trying to force phase out.Thats why i have a pair of Fireknifes with TA and a Tm L Helios, to pump out as much plasma as possible, at BS4, while maintaining longer-range firepower against scarabs.

one thing i want to ask: would it be feasable to put a pair of marker drones on my Monat Helios instead of a pair of shield? He's my unofficial (meaning my Shas'el still gets IC status even if the Shas'vre dies) bodyguard for my Shas'el. Could i use the Monat to provide more marker support?

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Post#6 » Aug 14 2006 07:28

Taipan wrote:no, because each sniper drone has a markerlight

it can choose to fire it or its rail rifle


No, they only have the rail rifle.
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Post#7 » Aug 14 2006 08:10

er, so what the hell is GW smoking when they made the sniper teams?

we can get S6 elsewhere, without scarificing mobility or a heavy support slot. If its only 1 markerlight per squad, they are truly broken :? . Oh well, i was going to take them, but that Ionhead can kill more and move 12" anyway. And have AV14. In the same slot. And fire off SMS and seekers while doing so. Sold? Completely :evil:

well, much like i realised with vespid, a cool-looking new unit gets completely ruined by GW, thank you very much. :( Now lets all go and wank over the new SM codex, they need more power of course, its not like they are overpowered :(

more reason to break GW HQ legs until they give the Tau a decent new unit. Skyray, job done better by other units. Vespid, die when MeQ's look at them. Sniper drones, ruined completely. Joy :-?

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Post#8 » Aug 15 2006 11:34

Errr, truly broken is a bit harsh, don't you think?

While not giving much to the standard Mech Tau design, Sniper Drones provide several benefits for a more static army. Taking 9 S6 AP3 shots in a single force org slot is superior firepower to the Ionhead (though at a higher point cost), preserving the other 2 HS slots for additional systems. The Stealth Field allows them to be deployed in open field within resorting to cover. Finally, having another Markerlight is never a bad thing.

I don't believe it's a unit that one can simply drop into an existing Tau list and expect it to do well. Any unit that takes up 240 points should have the list designed to work well with it.

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Post#9 » Aug 16 2006 04:37

well, it would have tactical capability in a static list.

well, while i do field a huge (im talking 6 guys, Tm L, pair of marker drones on him plus a TA, and the rest have DC with a pair of gun :evil: )
stealth team, i will be the first to admit that the stealth fields so hated by our opponents are highly overrated. While sniper drones make better use of it (if anything gets within 18", you are already dead), they suffer in other areas. They have to be stationary most of the time. That requires careful deployment, support fire when assaulters threaten them etc. All this to get 3 markerlights. Frankly, while the 9 "if you don't have T4 you are dead" headshots are good, most armies are MeQ or have heavily armed MeQ components, who can withstand the onslaught. Not only that, but in reality you can expect only 6 of those shots to hit. Enough to pin weaker units like IG and Nid's, but in most cases it doesn't have a great deal of utility. And thats if all 3 fire at the same target. :sad:

im sorry, but if i spend more points to get less, IMO, its not worth it. Stealth fields make them viable, just not in my book. Then again, i am pretty Mechanised in my style anyway ;) so to all the brave static players i say go for Sniper teams. :biggrin:

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Post#10 » Aug 16 2006 08:39

...but that Ionhead can kill more and move 12" anyway. And have AV14...

Sorry to bring this up again, but Hammerheads do NOT have AV14!!! We have AV13!!!
It's:
Front: 13
Side: 12
Back: 10
Please read your Codex thoroughly ;)
Ah, yes, mere infantry - poor beggars... - Plautus

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Post#11 » Aug 16 2006 04:55

oh well, by a process of elimination i learn :/

getting confused between my two favorite vehciles, the Crusader and the Hammerhead.

anywho, Ionhead is still the better choice. ;)

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Post#12 » Aug 16 2006 08:37

Taipan wrote:anywho, Ionhead is still the better choice. ;)


Only when being used alongside a Railhead...then it is perfect!
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Post#13 » Aug 16 2006 10:59

not if you take a BASS team

sacrifice a little mobility, for 3 insta-death shots :evil:

a BASS team+2 Ionheads=no more armour of any type left on the board. And they have half decent anti-infantry capabilites anyway.

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Post#14 » Aug 20 2006 07:18

you know, i think i may have found a way to appease thos who demand a Railhead in evey list (fair enough) and my own desires to field an Ion cannon. So how would this fare?

Railhead, SMS, MT, DP, DL, 2 seekers

Ionhead, SMS, MT, DP, DL, 2 seekers

BASS Tm L, Twin PR, hw multi, hw dc with 2 x shield
2 x BASS Shas'ui, SMS

Combination of mobility (the Hammerheads) raw killing power (the BASS) and the look on my opponents face :crafty: :evil:

is this the perfect storm of heavy support? :roll:
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Post#15 » Aug 20 2006 11:36

No. The Seekers make both vehicles extremely expensive with little return as they require huge infra-structute in order to be used effectively.
Drop the Seekers and I'd agree you've got a fairly good 1500 HS set-up. However 1 RH is a liability against fast moving MCs and horde lists.
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Post#16 » Aug 23 2006 05:01

Meph, i think you have missed the whole point

hands up ppl who don't (now) take at least some markerlights in their army? Come on, high now. What's that? Nobody? I wonder why... :crafty:

infrastructure isn't the point. Even if seekers are not your style, markerlights have way too much utility these days to be passed over. Reducing cover, boosting BS (particulary of the Crisis and the FW, who are abysmal without such help:/ ), pinning, the list goes on.

Seekers provide us with a tactical advantage, much like the markerlights they are paired with, which few can ignore. Be my guest, don't take em, but if you really don't want the ability to destroy rear armour at will, that is your choice. Pop them with RH, it is more reliable. Im just saying, when 2 5 strong Destroyer teams pop out of nowhere and start murdering your FW and Crisis, 1-3 Railguns will either be

1. Trying to kill the Lord

2. Trying to kill the 'Lith

3. Trying to submunition the scarab swarms

In this case, the amount of raw S8 AP2 you can chuck at them, which all hit on 2+, make mincemeat outta this sort of scenario. Not to mention the ability to kill things like Wraiths, Flayed Ones and those ever-irritating scarab swarms :/ :evil:

seekers are the main deal with Tau, no other army has these sort of weapons. The hunter killers of the SM are rare and unreliable by comparison (because the host vehicles are slow and easy to kill, with the exception of the LR). They require skimmer chassis, but its not like any Mech army is short on them ;)
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Post#17 » Aug 23 2006 07:50

Taipan wrote:hands up ppl who don't (now) take at least some markerlights in their army?


*Raises hand*

I think you're missing the point of Meph's post. His claim is that to properly utilize seekers, you need a large number of markerlights, which are all carried by units that are overpriced and fragile.

Points spent on markerlights are better spent elsewhere, especially against Necrons with their abundance of jetbike-like units which are capable of ripping any markerlight carrying unit into shreds.

Fireknives, as always, are your best points sink after Hammerheads.

Oh, and Seekers are AP3. You do own the codex don't you?

Meph; I also think that by taking two HHs with different weapons, you are offering your opponents choices that can be denied by taking two of the same weapon.

I'd take either two RH or two IH, not one of both.
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Post#18 » Aug 23 2006 08:09

:-? well, even at AP3 it still negates the Necrons normal save. And for everything not T5, insta-kills.

may i point out the two units most commonly taken in Tau armies. Stealths and FW. Both have the capacity to provide a great deal of marker support, while remaning survivable (Stealth have jetpacks, FW have Devilfish). Both can field markerlights, and back eachother up when either one dies (Necrons love killing FW, Stealths get murdered by CC units and Destroyers) so while each is vulnerable, each is redundant (ie unlike the Crisis, if they die, my whole world doesn't collapse) ;)

Fireknifes cannot, repeat that, cannot kill as much as everyone thinks. They are the most versatile, but its always a tradeoff between adding a TA for BS4, or taking the MT for those 2 MP shots. So when the FK and RH dies, who is going to kill those Destroyers/Warriors? Where is the neccessary firepower coming from?

Anyway, i already got my other thread locked over this particular arguement, so i think we should leave it here yeah? Focus on other issues.
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