Eldar Inches - Tau distress signal

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Eldar Inches - Tau distress signal

Post#1 » Sep 07 2006 07:46

Eldar Inches, as described in an arcane thread on warseer, is where your opponent moves an extra inch or so every time they move their unit.

'Slow' units like tactical squads and carnifexs have chased down all my battlesuits in two previous games. A huge squad of homogaunts charged a broadside 6" from the table edge on the first turn, for a total of 29-30" charge range from their own deployment zone. Other games at my club involving one shooty and one assaulty army ended similarily. The tau players at my club are loosing horribly.

How do you deal with this? The other tau players are seemingly forced to accept this, as its usually hard to prove that your opponent is way too far into your deployment zone. Only the homogaunts were ever caught, because the math didn't add up (12+24=42?)

How do you deal with this phenomenon at your local club?

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faol
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Post#2 » Sep 07 2006 08:16

Why do they have to cheat to win a game :/ win by cheating is a true victory :(
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Post#3 » Sep 07 2006 09:05

In my games it has always been very difficult to see if someone moved their forces too far. But I tell them when I think I see it.

If I get the feeling that someone moves their forces too far I tell him what I think about it nicely. But I think you have to say it the first time you suspect him of it. If he does it another time I ask him to measure for example 6" and put a dice there. Then he can move his pieces over there.

This seams very harsh but I hate it if people have to cheat to win. So I think I have to. Tau can't compete with forces moving much farther than they can according to the rules. It will cost you the game. Your opponent has to be aware of that.

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Davian
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Post#4 » Sep 07 2006 09:29

Unfortunately, this happens to me all the time; it's one of the (smaller) reasons I haven't gone there to play in a long while. When I try to call them on it, the reaction is always "Well, you must have deployed wrong, then." I explained the math to them once, but then two or three people came to his defense, accusing me of trying to hide my mistakes. :roll: That's just pretty much a symptom of what kind of people they are, though. Honestly, I don't miss it... although, I'd like to actually get a game in at some point. I'm getting rusty.

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O'Shais
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Post#5 » Sep 07 2006 09:36

It happens ALL the time at my GW. Everyone does it, it's not that they cheat but because they don't know better (at least most of the time). Even the most experienced player I know there always moves extra. I only know two people whom I haven't seeen overmeasure, and one of them is myself (yeah yeah I'm boasting :sad: ).

It's so common that I don't call people on it. First of all, it's very hard to prove it when he's moved his first model. Then it's just speculating where it was originally.
Second, you quickly get a bad reputation for calling people on it constantly. I prefer being known as easy-going rather than a rules-lawyer, even if I know I'm right and I am disadvantaged by it.

The last time I didn't call on it (or rather, I did, but I gave up eventually because the guy wasn't exactly agreeing with me... and he was probably 20cm taller than me :/ ), I lost the game. His Kroot were able to charge my battlesuit (TL flamer & AFP, if it interests you), even though I knew they shouldn't have been able to (I KNOW 6" when I see it, and when I don't, I've played enough to recognise it). And I didn't actually see him making the move! Then when he had killed it, he rolled 4" for consolidation and moved 4.5" into my Stealths. I tried showing him, and even asked another guy to back me up, but he moved it anyway. He won the whole game because of that.
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sirbrendan
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Post#6 » Sep 07 2006 10:08

I call the other player on it the first time I see it. And every time after that. I also get annoyed when the other guy moves his first guy 6", then moves the rest of the squad 8/10/12 inches to close in.
On the converse side, I will allow a charge to be successful if the the player misjudeged by less that an 8th of an inch. If he measures and comes up that short, I will give it to him. If he just moves, I will make him measure and say sorry your short.
Reward honesty, crush cheating.

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Post#7 » Sep 07 2006 11:12

sirbrendan wrote:Reward honesty, crush cheating.
Matt

this statement is made of god and win.

-Prophet
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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Post#8 » Sep 07 2006 11:20

Great statement Sirbrendan were suppose to win through good use of tactics and lucky dice roles :roll: not by sneaking your forces up and extra 1 or 6 inches every chance you get.

Playing fair and honestly make the game fun cheating and to much of it and who wants to play with you and how are you getting better at playing :-?
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Feuerdrache
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Post#9 » Sep 07 2006 12:42

I'm pretty TL flamer and AFP on a Crisis should be able to engage and kill a full Kroot squad without taking a hit. If you couldn't JSJ with your suit properly, I could understand why this occurred. Or maybe you played on a small table. They shouldn't be able to charge turn one, they only have an effective charge range of 12" and there's usually at least 18" between deployment zones. :/

I hate cheatery. There's a little kid at my GW who I force to reroll almost everything because he just holds the dice about .5" from the table top, with the 6 side facing up. So of course when I played him, he was making 5+ Cover Saves like a beast. I still beat him (9 FW taking out a Hammerhead had something to do with it, I'm pretty sure).

I don't like to play against him anymore, though.

Another version of Eldar Inches is where your opponent measures the move from the lead of his unit, then moves the rest of his unit in such a way as what was once 2 columns of Gaunts is now 2 ranks.

Sometimes, you gotta be a rules lawyer. The credo of the rules lawyer makes perfect sense - "This game has rules, and if you don't want to play by them, play another game!" Just because you sound like a dick occasionally shouldn't make a difference. The Tau lose to Eldar Inches, and it's not fair to you if they cheat like that.

One of the easiest (it seems to me) way to pull of Eldar Inches is to move the lead model so that the back of its base is 6" from where the front of its base used to be. If you see someone moving their models as if they're measuring from the back of the base, watch them carefully and make sure that's what's going on.

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Post#10 » Sep 07 2006 03:35

Yeah I agree. I really really don't care if someone think I am a rules-lawyer. I'm a nice guy to play against and I am not nagging about the rules. It doesn't have to be 6.00" for me.

When someone moves about 7"or more I just ask in a friendly manner the first time something like was that 6" or 7"? Then if he does it again I just tell him to put a dice at 6" and then he can move up to it. There will be no more asking from then on.

Do you let your opponent bring an army of 1600pts when you are playing 1500pts?

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Post#11 » Sep 07 2006 04:02

The trick people are likely using on you (and why you're not necessarily catching it) could be that they're measuring from the front of their base and putting the back of their base where they meaured to. That accounts for the odd almost inch gained everytme they maneuver. assuming move and assault, that's 2 inches attained every urn by models that shouldn't have been able to.

i've been guilty before of overmeauring (or flat not measuring) but only with my marines for a very practical reason: squad separation. By keeping my boys in somewhat coherent formations, I don't start mixing things up on accident. In the end, I figure the two to five inches I fudged left or right on a few models probably isn't as bad as having two lascannons in the same squad on accident. And I usually get pretty precise when it comes to assaulting or the like...

Which goes to say: Paint your models before you play! lol

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maximuspandem
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Post#12 » Sep 07 2006 05:10

This is a very good subject and i think all tau should be aware of.

It realy annoys me when assualt moves are say 1/2, 2/4 an inch out and the opponant moves up in to assualt. :(

I consider this "cheating" in one of it most annoying forms :fear:

of course i pull them up on it if i see it.
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Troutmonkey
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leap frogging

Post#13 » Sep 07 2006 07:17

Ihate it when people leap frog, or get thier land raider, measure from the front and then use it back just to get LOS of my HH.
The easiest way I find is follow them with the tape measure and measure everything they do again,make sure they move the first guy and make the rest of the squad stays behind, this normally keeps them in check ;)
I'm a pretty easy playerthough most of the time, don't really care about difficult terrain, re-roll cocked dice, if your 1" out with your gun I might let you.
But when it comes to rules a play by them.
But there have been times when people blatenly cheat.
I put my crisis on thier side in a building and my opponent (who also works at the club!) said they couldn't fire over each other and only the bloke at the front can shoot.
Also another player (and he was a long time vet with 3 armies!) said his assault marines could move an additional 6" in the assault phase because their in the Jump Pack section which contains the jet pack section so they gain that rule, then I said going by that my crisis could move 12" in the movement phase and he said no because there only in the Jet pack section and it says they only move 6" :(
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Commander Scarleg
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Post#14 » Sep 07 2006 07:34

You people are the unlucky ones I guess. My friends play pretty nice. One is a rules lawyer, so he has to follow the rules strictly to the letter, all the time. Kinda annoying when he doesn't know half the rules but it gets worked out, usually to the detriment of the local redshirts. The other is one of the rare people who has fun no matter what happens. It's fairly give and take when we play.

"Oh, your Biker Chaplin is 1/2 an inch off to assault? Eh, go ahead."
"Cool".

Then later,

"This plasma rifle look in range to you?"
"Ummm... Yes?"

Just like it was meant to be.
Paintball: It's good for the blood!

Protonic
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Post#15 » Sep 07 2006 08:09

Simply, adding up the maximum distance that the opponent could have travelled at the end of their first turn and measuring this distance out is the best way to catch these extra inches. It might allow opponents to move an extra inch or so if they didn't deploy at the edge of their deployment zone, but it does mean that the opponent cannot claim that they moved 6" from a point infront of where their model began.

Also, a tip to everyone who uses GW red/black dice. I have identified 5 dice out of 27 (lost 3) that are TERRIBLE. They roll 1/2/3 two thirds of the time. The worst dice are noticably lighter than the other dice. Buy precision dice, or at the very least dice that aren't made out of cheap plastic.

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Troutmonkey
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Post#16 » Sep 07 2006 11:28

WOah loaded dice, goes to prove GW love SM.
THey hit us on 3+ (possible)
They wound us on 3+ (possible)
We save on 4+ (very hard if dice rigged!)
We hit on 4+ (very hard if dice rigged!)
We wound 3+ (Possible)
THey sace 3+ (possible)
So that goes to prove they are disadvantaging us in favor of SM.
Or it just proves they over price us for cheap plastic ;)
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Post#17 » Sep 07 2006 11:52

i'ved killed everything in rapidfire range before, and had my opponent charge around my devilfish, into a forest and through, out the other side, and into my firewarriors. i assume his sisters of battle were wearing nike (my first ever game, against a red shirt, no less)

i don't like firewarriors simply because rapidfire puts me close enough to get cheated. it's a lot easier to smudge charge range when the firewarriors are AROUND 12" distant, rather than, say, 24" for stealth suits.

i've only played 3 games in total, and i've seen a MASSIVE amount of cheating already.

Protonic
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Post#18 » Sep 08 2006 03:12

The GW dice protected me from a lascannon and meltagun for an entire game (4 lascannon shots and 1 meltagun against the front armour of my hammerhead). In exchange, my commander lost 6 ap1 shots against basic marines. Also two landspeeders survived 40 pulse shots from FW, 12 SMS shots, a railgun submunition, 1 railgun solidshots and 6 misslepod shots at BS5.

What interests me is that most shooty players don't do eldar inches. Even with close combat units and dreadnaughts. Perhaps assaulty armies draw players more prone to cheating?

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