New Eldar

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
Ryzouken
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Post#37 » Oct 20 2006 10:24

just don't roll snake eyes when you're FoFing.


Sorry for the misintel on the Vypers.

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Post#38 » Oct 20 2006 10:37

Oh *BAD WORD DELETED!*. Those harlies are starting to look as bad as feared. The only way to kill them it would seem is with FoF, but it requires about 27 S5 hits to take down 10 Fortuned Harlies, so a double FoF would reliably wipe out a ten man troupe.
There is basically no other way of killing them due to Viel of Tears, although the AFP and SMS ignore that. So SMS spam is going to be godlike, as will the AFP.

I'm thinking something along the lines of 3 Ionheads, 3 MechFW units, and the rest Firestorm Crisis.
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Post#39 » Oct 20 2006 10:38

A question though, is the 5+ save an inv save ? In the old dex it was a cover save, and we can negate cover saves...
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Soji
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Post#40 » Oct 20 2006 10:45

An average close range FoF will kill 10 of the space clown. And we are not taking any ML hit into account. Of course they can easily find cover, but they don't need cover since they already have 5+ invul. So meh. And anyaway Banshee and Scorpion already massacre our firewires, so why bother ? As a foot note, Gun Drones are good to use against them. They can make some serious damages, fire from 13 inches so that you can spot them and aren't in range to be shot at, and can approach the harlies from the side so that going after them means going away from your army. And even if they are caught, they aren't worth crap so you don't care. Ho yes, and Kroot can slaughter them if they counter charge.
So yes they are (a bit) dangerous, but I'm still more worried about the auto glancing weapon platform, the mighty Falcon, the nastier-than-ever Fire Prime, and the Wraith lord.
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Post#41 » Oct 20 2006 10:53

Soji, they have a 5+ rerollable save.

And Banshees usually die pathetically against Tau, I have never lost a single model to banshees.
The only infantry from the Eldar that I'm worried about are Harlies, Fire Dragons (insta kill Crisis now) and maybe Swooping Hawks, don't know very much about them.

Apart from the above mentioned, the jetbikes look strong, the autarch will give them a huge edge in omega battles, and of course Fire Prisms and Falcons. Vipers have become more expensive and the starcannon has been nerfed (thank god), so they're not as dangerous as before.
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Post#42 » Oct 20 2006 11:09

The re-roll doesn't come standard, that's a psy power, so I didn't include it in the calculation. And hawk can use EMP and always hit vehicle (skimmer or not) on a 4+, so they can put the hurt on our Hammerhead.
Last edited by Soji on Nov 07 2006 08:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post#43 » Oct 20 2006 11:34

Yeah, i just read the Hawk bit, they're ok. Not very tough, so when they land they'll get shot to pieces.
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Post#44 » Oct 20 2006 11:40

I always liked them, I think it's a good thing they are now useful. They were more a "fluff" unit that you took for its look, since it had almost no tactical value.
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Post#45 » Oct 20 2006 11:49

The Harliquin save is 5++.

If you want a fully tooled harliquin squad (10 men) it's going to cost you around 250 pts or so. If you want to attached the Farseer for the re-rollable invulnerable, we're talking at least another 100 pts... so 350.

If you are mobile then you will laugh this army off the board.... Great... they move 12 if they are lucky, all our stuff moves that far every turn. They will destroy your static units (Kroot, Non Devilfished FW and Broadsides) but everything else will fade away while destroying them with smart missiles and AFB. It does encourage you to take smart missiles on every vehicle we have, that's for sure.

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Post#46 » Oct 20 2006 11:52

I'm looking forward to landing a double FoF on these Space Clowns.
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Post#47 » Oct 20 2006 12:03

we're going to see an army with lower model-count than deathwing for a while, and then the extreme lists will fade and we'll go back to basically a tweaked eldar army. if anyone wants to put 2/3 of their list in harlies, we should welcome the easy win.

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Post#48 » Oct 20 2006 12:04

It'll friggin slaughter any stand and shoot army though.
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Post#49 » Oct 20 2006 12:28

And that's exactly why Tau aren't a "pure shoot" army, we are a "mobile shooting" army. So what about the Avenger and the fire dragons , What damage can they do to us ? How can we escape it ? The rest looks like standard eldar, no real change to speak of (I'm talking infantry here).
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Post#50 » Oct 20 2006 12:36

Avengers and Dragons rely on Wave Serpents to do their job; with their DFish like AV we've got plenty of things that can hammer them well. Not sure what the rules on the holofield are and such, but even if it's max S8 against a glance-only skimmer, most Tau lists have 6-8 shots of S7 missile pod goodness to toss their way. That should mess them up enough that they can't deliver their cargo, which is what makes them dangerous.

Moreover, we've got loads of S5 shots for their sides and rear, and our tanks aren't static. We can run almost as fast as they can advance, so it will be incredibly hard for them to dump their cargo near our armor or our suits.

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Post#51 » Oct 20 2006 12:59

We can't be nearly as fast as they are, since the stellar engine means they can move 24 inches. The holo-field means they throww 2 dice when damaged, and use the lower one. There is only 1/9 chance of having a good enough roll to neutralize one of them. Glancing an AV12 9 times is nothing to sneeze at, it require 27 S7 hits. With base BS (FK and FS) that's a whole 54 shots. Even if you are only using BS4 crisis and ionhead, that's still 40 shots, so 15 Missile pods and 3 ionhead firing together. Obviously even a very anti-eldar army will only manage to kill one every other turn. And if they field several seprents plus falcons ...

Of course the only thing that change is that Falcon are much harder to kill (immobilising reduce it to a very powerful firing platform instead of killing it), and wave can move 24 inches meaning that even if you get them on the first turn because you are lucky, they are already in your deployment zone.
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Post#52 » Oct 20 2006 01:37

Geuss I do mech too much...

Yes, they move 24" a turn if needed. But that means turn 1 they move 24" closer, you move 12" away. Turn 2 they move another 24" closer, you move another 12" away. Only on turn 3, at best, can they move withing striking distance to unload and fire... and you might be able to deny them the double penetration dice range even then.

Roll 2d6 take lowest does hurt... especially on glance-only. Of course, so long as they are immobilized, destroyed, or stunned to where they can't drop cargo you've done your job... and that's 5/6 of the damage results. Fortunately, if they're heading into your deployment zone you can get flank and rear hits against lower AV, which should make that holofield less worthwhile.

But, yeah - a problem to be sure. Especially for static lists.

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Post#53 » Oct 20 2006 01:51

No, that's not, with the Spirit Stone they are never stunned, any result of stunned count as shocked. So that's down to only 2 results out of 6, so 1 chance out of 9 to either immobilize or destroy them.
The table isn't unlimmited, if they have to move three turn it means they moved 72 inches, most tables aren't even that big. You can evade them by falling back for 2 turns, 3 max.
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Ryzouken
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Post#54 » Oct 20 2006 04:17

Honestly, pure Mech Eldar is going to require luck. Plain and simple. There's really not a very feasible method for putting out the requisite number of shots to ensure their holo fields are going to fail. Additionally, Mech Eldar doesn't run into the same problem Mech Tau does (fielding heavy weapons in bulk) as every wave serpent can mount a big gun that's twinlinked. So not only is the Eldar variant of the DFish more resilient, it's also got bigger guns. Really, the only place I can see Mech Eldar having a weakness is in points. When it comes down to it, everything they have is better, but it costs more too. Dire Avengers can kick our tails, but they're like 12 points per model and that's not taking into account the Exarch and Bladestorm. Serpents are flat out better than our ubiquitous Devilfish, but they cost easily 150% what the DFish does. The only way I can see a viable strategy for winning vs new Eldar consistently is keeping your guys alive as long as possible and hoping they sank more points into non scoring units than you did. God (or whoever) help you if your mission isn't using Victory Points.

Also, keep in mind that Eldar vehicles need no upgrades to move 24 inches (To my knowledge) as they are normally fast vehicles. The Star Engines just allow them to move an extra d6 inches past the normal 24 (from last codex).

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