Feeding Frenzy Vs Eldar

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
Abrainiac
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Feeding Frenzy Vs Eldar

Post#1 » Dec 04 2006 12:36

Feeding Frenzy Vs Eldar

The idea of blocking the exits for a Landraider with three Piranhas, and then penetrating it is a costly and unlikely event. But against Eldar this becomes a move valuable technique. Now in stead of fielding a unit of 3 or more Piranhas you can take them singly. As Wave Serpents and Falcons only have one access point (the rear), you only need one Piranha to block the exit. At the minimum an elder wave serpent with no upgrades with 10 guardians in the back cost well over 180 points, but more likely will cost closer to 300 points with specialized CC troops inside. That is an extremely juicy target and worth risking the points of one Piranha.

Now there are two ways to employ this tactic:

1. This tactic can be accomplished with a fusion or burst cannon configuration. Move the piranha 24 or less inches to behind the Eldar vehicle and use railguns, missile pods, or ion cannons to glance the front with as many as possible. Being as the front armor is 12 and our railguns strength is reduced to 8, I would not suggest using it first. Hope for a 6 on the glancing table and destroy both the vehicle and the troops inside.

2. Option two has your Fusion Piranha moving less then 12 inch and now able to fire his weapon. Rear armor is vulnerable to being melted thus 2D6 on armor penetration. It will still be a glancing hit, but now the whole army doesn't have to be involved in the tactic, and if he fails to bring it down you still have to option of using other weapons form your army to fire at the transport.

Now even if you don't succeed in your tactic you still have created a new challenge for the Eldar player. He will not be able to get away from the Piranha unless the tuboboosts, but then he cannot shoot or deploy troops. Second he will deploy his troop in an area not intended, but just to get them out of the transport. And now his main target priority will be the piranha that is exposed, thus shifting focus away from the rest of your army.
This tactic is also more likely to succeed if the vehicle was unable to move the previous turn from shooting thus allowing you to penetrate with most of our vehicle weapons.
"If you are screaming we are coming"1-169th Medevac

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davidmournestar
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Post#2 » Dec 04 2006 12:40

Good god thats dirty as hell.....nice tactic...and it actually now brings a viable idea to me bringing pirahna's against eldar...
Meliora Cogito!

O' Nars Yon
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Post#3 » Dec 04 2006 12:53

That's a fairly neat tactic. Your Piranha becomes more of a Lamprey suckered onto the Eldar vehicle. If you have a number of them as single vehicle units, you could keep a couple of his vehicles running and trying to shoo you off for most of a game I would imagine.

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Soji
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Post#4 » Dec 04 2006 01:05

Only a rather moronic Eldar player will end his turn with a loaded Wave Serpent with its back within 12 inches of the FB Piranhas. They know the Wave has no protection from the rear, it's not any better than a land Speeder there.

And when a Skimmer moved over 12 inches and is destroyed, the troops are wiped out anyway, no need to use the Piranhas.
55/1/0

Soji, as always at your service

Abrainiac
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Post#5 » Dec 04 2006 03:43

And when a Skimmer moved over 12 inches and is destroyed, the troops are wiped out anyway, no need to use the Piranhas.


Passengers on a skimmer moving more then 12" are not destroyed. They receive a wound on a 4+ with any misses are rerolled, and normal saves allowed. Only a vehicle annihilated kills all passengers, and that requires a penetrating hit by ordnance. So with 10 troops you will wound 7-8 passengers before saves. However the troops will be entangled for a turn.
"If you are screaming we are coming"1-169th Medevac

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T0nkaTruckDriver
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Re: Feeding Frenzy Vs Eldar

Post#6 » Dec 04 2006 05:09

Abrainiac wrote:The idea of blocking the exits for a Landraider with three Piranhas, and then penetrating it is a costly and unlikely event.


The reason this concept has gained popularity against land-based transport vehicles is that you don't even have to destroy the vehicle to achieve the desired effect. All you need to do is score a penetrating hit (not hard with a Fusion Blaster or Railgun since they're AP1) and the troops inside are forced to disembark. Even if you roll poorly on the armor penetration roll and fail to damage the vehicle, the troops will still be destroyed.

Against a skimmer, you actually need to destroy the vehicle in order to kill the troops.

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Spooky
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Post#7 » Dec 04 2006 05:17

they don't auto-die, (UNLESS you have something blocking the only hatch....)

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Davian
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Post#8 » Dec 04 2006 07:08

Of course, there's the whole problem with Eldar tanks being a real pain in the butt to take down, thanks to the combination of being a fast-moving skimmer, Spirit Stones, Holo Fields, etc. That said, if you're going to take one out, it's definitely best to take care of the passengers in one fell swoop as well, if possible. Overall, I'd say this is more of a situational "if the opportunity presents itself" strategy than a "build an entire strategy around it" tactic. Good to know, nevertheless.

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midnight
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Post#9 » Dec 04 2006 09:23

The fun part: You can get a pretty good chance to glance the vehicle with even the burst cannons and the drones.

I spent most of a game following a falcon around with 2 piranha one game. I couldn't kill the thing, but it didn't do anything besides run for it's life the whole game (last codex).

The frenzy works great against chimeras even better than Eldar vehicles.
For the Greater Go'ould! Whoops, wrong genre.

madscientist
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Post#10 » Dec 05 2006 07:32

Only a rather moronic Eldar player will end his turn with a loaded Wave Serpent with its back within 12 inches of the FB Piranhas. They know the Wave has no protection from the rear, it's not any better than a land Speeder there.


Actually, I can imagine that you could do a 24" move to get in the rear and have your s7 guns (ion cannon, missile pod, Krootox if anyone uses it...). Against an expensive squad this could be quite efficient.

Abrainiac20
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Post#11 » Dec 08 2006 11:58

Main Impact
I think the main impact of this tactic is not if it succeeds in destroying the vehicle, but forcing your opponent to change their tactics. In 40k an action you take which relies on the roll of the dice to reap rewards depends on luck. But an action you take which just depends on movement is guaranteed (other then moving through terrain). The movement of a transport forward is an offensive action by your opponent. The movement of the Piranha to the rear of the transport forces the player to react to your actions. Now you have forced him to go on the defensive to protect his asset.

Risk vs. Reward
This tactic is a simple risk vs. rewards; one 70 point piranha (designed for vehicle hunting) for 180+ points of an offensive force. Worst case you don't damage the vehicle, they continue with their plan, and they shoot and destroy the Piranha. Best case you destroy the vehicle with one shot from the Piranha, killing all the troops inside, and the Piranha lives to fight another day. Now some where in between is what is more likely to happen, depending on how many shots you use to bring down the transport, and the roll of the dice. But if having to defend against such attacks changes the way they attempt to advance on your forces or objectives, then 70 points is a bargain. In military terms this is call shaping the battle field.

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RedTau
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Post#12 » Jan 06 2007 11:20

This tactic will work quite nicely with a Seeker Missile on the Piranha. :evil:

The single dismount point transport won't feel very exposed if you are well over 12" from his rear hatch. That should allow you to zip in and either bag him yourself or hope that one of your other guns Immobilizes him. At which point you've got a Seeker Missile aimed at his AV10 rear door that can cause the Penetrating hit.

Samuelr
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Post#13 » Jan 08 2007 01:15

It's still going to fairly hard to cause a penetrating hit on him, since hes a fast skimmer, so as long as he moves over 6inches it will be a glancing hit.

but I still like the idea of him having to move to get his troops out :)

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Mephet'ran
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Post#14 » Jan 08 2007 01:39

Yep, its a nice move to block his hatches so he can't get out even if you don't force them to you still have countered a possible assault.
Piranhas obviously work well for that role, but one can use pretty much anything you want. I've done it with Kroot, Crisis, HHs, FWs (the only things I have in my list), all it needs is for him to misjudge the distance and you can block the hatch.
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RedTau
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Post#15 » Jan 08 2007 02:31

Samuelr wrote:It's still going to fairly hard to cause a penetrating hit on him, since hes a fast skimmer, so as long as he moves over 6inches it will be a glancing hit.

but I still like the idea of him having to move to get his troops out :)


That's true, I forgot about the part where he gets to move. :smile:

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Mephet'ran
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Post#16 » Jan 08 2007 04:39

The whole thing about combating mech Eldar is not to actively try and kill his skimmers, this is almost impossible, but to force him to change his tactics, to constantly re-evaluate, to counter his attempts at out-maneuvering you.
This is one way of doing so.
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