Ahhh! Nid's! [Anti-Tyranid Advice needed]

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
Ryzouken
Shas
Posts: 596

Post#37 » Dec 27 2006 02:31

Colonel Marksman wrote:-- Wrong. See this. I defeated the Dark Eldar in close combat only because I made assaults. 10 Fire Warriors that charge is still 20 attacks. Also, 5 S:5 attacks with the 'O has helped me tremendously.

Now, I do agree that flying Tyrants are the scariest first, but they still only have a 3+ save. Railheads take care of that.

Also, although Broads are great against Zilla armies, Railheads are better against the swarms and the Zillas, are more mobile, and just as much range. I personally don't like Broads actually, but beside the point of the topic.


These two things made me frown. Yes, Tau can win in assaults. Does that mean it's a good idea? No. Also, do you want to assault Tyranids? No. In fact, an emphatic no. And that's an emphatic no for every army that exists (virtually. Some silly armies can actually hold their own, but for the most part, it's suicide to assault nids). Your best bet is to stand outside your transports, sink long ranged pulse shots at the swarms to whittle them down a bit, then hop into the transport when they get close enough and run. Make those gaunts a liability instead of an asset (those synapse critters are TIED to those gaunt swarms.)

Second: Railguns versus a 3+ sv Flyrant? Why? Ion still negates the sv and has triple the shots. With a lucky salvo of two ionheads fire (over one turn) could wipe a Flyrant from the table. A railgun will only ever inflict one wound. Railhead vs nids = lose. At least a broadside team carries multiple rails (plus the possibility of a lucky SMS or plasma shot).

Also, why can't that Flyrant be carrying a 2+ save? Warp Field is still a viable psychic selection (doubly so since the only other big option for Tyrant psychics is useless vs. Tau. I speak of Shadow in the Warp) and what's more it gives a 1 in 6 chance of ignoring that railhead shot you were depending on to wound the beast.

take ionheads or XV-88 teams unless you really need that big pie plate of death. If you do need the pie plate, consider why you don't have enough massed pulse fire and how you can fix the problem.

User avatar
Colonel Marksman
Shas
Posts: 444
Contact:

Post#38 » Dec 27 2006 10:30

Ryzouken wrote:Second: Railguns versus a 3+ sv Flyrant? Why? Ion still negates the sv and has triple the shots. With a lucky salvo of two ionheads fire (over one turn) could wipe a Flyrant from the table. A railgun will only ever inflict one wound. Railhead vs nids = lose. At least a broadside team carries multiple rails (plus the possibility of a lucky SMS or plasma shot).

-- Because I'm personally against bringing: "Ok. this for all the little ones, Ions for the Zillas, this for that, and that for this..." AHHH!!! A Railgun can take care of both jobs. Sure the Ionhead is better against Zillas, I'm not arguing that. This guy doesn't sound like he's fighting Zillas. Take an all-rounder.

Ryzouken wrote:Also, why can't that Flyrant be carrying a 2+ save? Warp Field is still a viable psychic selection (doubly so since the only other big option for Tyrant psychics is useless vs. Tau. I speak of Shadow in the Warp) and what's more it gives a 1 in 6 chance of ignoring that railhead shot you were depending on to wound the beast.

-- You know.... I never thought about that. I was saying you can't take 2+ armor save and Wings, but I totally forgot about Warp Field.

Anyway, this guy isn't fighting lots of Zillas. You're suggestions and tactics and equipment work really well, but its all too specialized.

If you bring Ionheads and Broads to a 100-'Nid model count army, you're pretty screwed over.
Tau overpowered? No, everyone else is under.

User avatar
midnight
Shas
Posts: 229

Post#39 » Dec 28 2006 01:31

Depending on the godzilla list, that's not always the case. The only things you worry about hurting your railheads is the venom cannons and close combat. Strangler has iffy range and can be simply outmaneuvered and warp blast is the same for the shot that matters.

You can count on being able to shoot with most of your tanks if you can concentrate all of them on the venom carriers early and get those monsters out of the way. JSJ turns the tide usually.

Ninja is no good against nids. You will end up surrounded by real close combat units even if you charge hormagaunts and the sheer amount of attacks will lead to your demise.

97 pt 'El is the way to go.Either helios or fireknife works. I prefer helios as the fireknife's missile pods are pretty much a "hope it eventually does something useful" weapon.
For the Greater Go'ould! Whoops, wrong genre.

User avatar
Tamoio
Shas
Posts: 16

Post#40 » Dec 28 2006 06:12

We have to remember that there are certain peculiarities regarding the nids roster.

I disagree that the Ionhead is a good weapon against nids.

A Flyrant can have a 2+ save and any nid player worth its salt is gonna field that big bug with a 2+ save. I mean, Why not?

Carnifexs can have a 3+ or a 2+ save depending on wheter they're taken as Elite or Heavy Support.

Zoanthropes have a 2+save.

That means that unless you're fighting a zilla army your ionheads are gonna be no good... And even if you're going against the zillas the ionheads are gonna excel only against a small part of his list. Specifically the Elite fexes and the Walking Tyrant's guard.

Broadsides are no good because that they're gonna be swamped on turn two tops if you're up against a good player.
Is it good enough to pay 200 points for a unit that is only gonna be able to take a maximum of 4 rail shots?
That is, if they're not taken out earlier by things like venon cannons. Gunfexes have BS3, often sporting twin-linked weaponry.

My advice is go for railheads, mechanized infantry, fusion piranhas (two tops) and plasma on every suit.

Jeff Ray
Shas
Posts: 1

Post#41 » Dec 28 2006 08:02

The only models I know of that do not get destroyed when Deep Strike would have them land on enemy/friendly units are the Monolith and the Drop Pod.


Special case: Tyranid spore mines can deep strike, and detonate normally if they hit enemy troops.

User avatar
Colonel Marksman
Shas
Posts: 444
Contact:

Post#42 » Dec 30 2006 11:24

Nice point, Jeff, and Tamoio: good insight.
Tau overpowered? No, everyone else is under.

Ryzouken
Shas
Posts: 596

Post#43 » Dec 30 2006 11:51

I was thinking the ionhead for targets more like Warriors, 3+ Tyrants (when they appear), Broodlords, and random special critters (red terror, old one eye) Also, sheer volume of shots has a chance of getting a wound through on those ZThropes. Really, the only point I'd say rails would be better is on 2+ sv Fexes and Tyrants.

Broadsides do okay if you use the devilfish to screen them. And anyway, you've got a 2+ sv. Who cares if the Fex fires a Barb Strangler or V Cannon? Remember, when facing nids it's all about volume of fire. For the HS slot, I'd rather take two (or three) semi stationary railguns over a single mobile one (although that blast template is attractive...) and I'd rather take an ionhead over any rails. Let my Elite and HQ slot hunt those pesky 2+ save critters.

And broadsides gtting targetted by enemy assaults isn't necessarily a bad thing. Makes for a good Kauyon maneuver.

But we can agree to disagree. (my mathhammer is weak...)

User avatar
Tamoio
Shas
Posts: 16

Post#44 » Dec 30 2006 05:00

Ryzouken wrote:But we can agree to disagree. (my mathhammer is weak...)


I have to recognize that I do suck at the mathhammer.

And we also have to consider that not every nid player plays the same. Most nid players despise Tyranid Warriors, but if in your gaming group nid players use them in large numbers, the ionhead becomes a better choice than the railhead.

To survive against nids on where I play I have to load up on AP1 and AP2 weaponry and I have to keep it fast to avoid fast assaulters like genestealers and the flyrant.

And I agree with you that the ionhead has its uses.

darkhitsuzen911
Shas
Posts: 2

Post#45 » Dec 30 2006 05:33

Tamoio wrote:To survive against nids on where I play I have to load up on AP1 and AP2 weaponry and I have to keep it fast to avoid fast assaulters like genestealers and the flyrant.


However, the orignal post stated that it was a speed/numbers swarm and not stompy death so stocking up on ap1/2 weapons, taking out the tyrant and then being forced to plunge those high priced single shots into gargoyle and hormagaunt broods is not something you would want. Then with the hammerhead i think railheads are the better choice because of the multipurpose swarm/fex killing ability is very valuable. Large blast is very likely to strike more than the few ion shots once the tyrant and carnifexes are gone and ap becomes nigh irrelevant.

I hope I didn't annoy anyone with this diatribe on common sense.
P.S. 'nids are my main army! :D
RegretThisYouShall,ForIHaveKillersInTheTrees

User avatar
Colonel Marksman
Shas
Posts: 444
Contact:

Post#46 » Dec 30 2006 07:13

Krel-Tal wrote:Well, anyhoo. I play with a regular group of 4 guys who all go to my school, I play Tau; and there is a Necron player, and Elder, and dun dun duuuun a Tyranid. My problem is, I'm going to be playing against Nids more often then not, and I have practicaly no idea what works against them.

If any of y'all could help me with what Crisis suite to use, and tactics and so on and such, I'd be very, very thankful.

If it helps he usually goes with a speed/numbers swarm, lead by a flying tyrant.

Well, thanks again. And if ya need more info. on what he's fielding, just ask an ill tell as best I can. Thanks!

Krel-Tal wrote:And as for MechTau, I guessed that, but I'm pretty inexperianced. What should I give my suits, what support systems should I take? What vehicles?


-- Krel is asking for help against not only the Tyranids, but a certain army of Tyranids.
Tau overpowered? No, everyone else is under.

User avatar
Tamoio
Shas
Posts: 16

Post#47 » Dec 30 2006 09:09

Well, against swarms there's a clever trick using kroot if the mission played allows infiltration.

Just infiltrate your kroot squads 18" in front of his army in the middle of the field. If he wins first turn (and he has the same strat rating we do) he won't be able to scout (if stealers) move/fleet/charge (hormies can charge 12"!!!) without bumbing into the kroot. This avoids those nasty first turn charges stealer armies can pull off.

And since the lowly 10 man kroot squad will more often than not die in the ensuing charge the nid player will have only a D6" consolidate.

And what do you know? He is now just in rapid fire range to the rest of your army.

And if you do get the first turn you can move the kroot forward and advance the wall some more.

Two squads should be sufficient for the job.

My friends often joke that I should give kroots hazard pay :evil:

User avatar
GTOnizukadude
Shas
Posts: 68

Post#48 » Dec 30 2006 11:14

In my recent experience, the things best suited for a swarm army led by a Flyrant would be:

Railheads (Double Duty for the quick kill vs. Tyrant and Anti-swarm)
AFP
Fireknives
Full Fishes backed up by suits
Burst Cannons

Basically roll as many dice as you can and stay away from the swarm.

NOTE: The as-many-dice-as-possible is because if you roll only 3 or 4 attacks per suit, you will NOT kill enough gaunts fast enough to keep them from reaching you.

Also, an 'O with Stims can hold his own in combat (and win sometimes) against anything without Rending claws. If they can rend, stay as far away as possible. And, as with any Tyranid army: SHOOT THE BIG ONES. If his army is reduced to wild animals, they won't be able to put up even a half decent fight.

/My 2 cents. Or 4 cents. :dead:
Ionheads never die. Ever <3
20W/5L/5D

User avatar
Colonel Marksman
Shas
Posts: 444
Contact:

Post#49 » Jan 01 2007 12:37

That's very excellent advice about the 'Nids going after the Kroot in that respect, but for going first, you don't use strategy rating, and consolidation is always 3". That, or they'll pursue on the Sweeping Advance. But I doubt the entire army is going to rampage against the Kroot, you're opponent will have to be unskilled and too combat crazed to do that.
And that WOULD be great for me, except I play on 72"x60" board, and we set up in the 60" sides (so from edge to edge is 72"). However, we play with 18" deployment (so we have the 36" distance if we set up close enough), and because the board is lengthwise, you can set up from 7-10 (or 12 sometimes) peices of terrain. Quite honestly, I found this the best way to play. Range makes sense, speed makes sense, infiltrators and scouts make sense. It really gives credit to all those factors. This way, ideally Broadside battlesuits don't get assaulted on the first turn. But don't worry, if my opponents are really eager to combat my Broads (if I had any), they'll be there by turn 3-4, 2 if its Eldar Fast Attack or Dark Eldar.

I believe that Warhammer Fantasy (which came first) was played alongside the long edges, and that makes sense for those type armies.
But for 40k, that just doesn't seem practical. Seriously, I doubt any army would set up in a broad formation and start the fight so close. However, the Fantasy style simply transferred to 40k, to more a Fantasy style of play. But the way we play still works quite well. Footsloggers are punished, speed is given credit. By turn 4-5, the footsloggers can finally deal death, while the speedy ones can do it in turn 2-3. This is great because the difference is turn 1 as opposed to 2-3, sheesh.

I'm rambling.
Tau overpowered? No, everyone else is under.

User avatar
Tamoio
Shas
Posts: 16

Post#50 » Jan 01 2007 09:35

I only play on official tables so I only have a 48" by 60" wide board and 24" separating me from the swarm.

Normally players have a 12" deployment zone.

So the nids have a potential first turn range of:

Hormagaunts: 12" deploy plus 6" move, potential 6" fleet and 12" charge range... That's a 36 inches threat range! If we factor those sneaky "eldar inches" nid players often enploy (if we're not paying enough attention) that's a potential first turn charge.

Genestealers: 12" deploy, 6" scout move, 6" move, D6" fleet and 6" charge... The same 36" first turn threat range.

If you use kroot as a buffer. The nid player will have three options: Charge the kroot and hope for a good consolidate, move around the kroot and loose time in reaching your lines or use the barbed strangler on the kroot instead of firing/pinning your firebase.

It's a win/win situation for the Tau player.

And if you do get the first turn you simply advance the koot and try to rapid fire the bugs while advancing the kroot wall and restricting their first turn movement range.

Return to “Archival Datacore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest