Eldar Jetbikes

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Elstur
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Eldar Jetbikes

Post#1 » Jan 13 2007 12:16

I just played a 1500 pt game today and these guys absolutely gave me fits. He ran a squad of 4 with a farseer and autarch attached. The farseer fortunes them every turn and it is very easy to stay out of line of sight because of his 24" turbo move that happens to give him a nice invulnerable save. Maybe it's just his luck but I felt like I could shoot at them with everything in my army and not hurt them at all. I guess the biggest problem is that they can catch my crisis suits in assault and they slaughter them because of powerweapon attacks. Combined with hit and run it seems like I am powerless to avoid my crisis getting slaughtered. It seems like any firepower put into them is wasted because of the rerolled 3+ save, and they are more pressing targets such as Fire Prisms and Falcons. Any ideas? Rapid firing with plasma didn't do too much :(
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lynkfox
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Post#2 » Jan 13 2007 01:41

not much is capable in our army of dealing with fortune.

I played a friend of mine recently who uesd Farseer on a jet bike to back up his Avatar, fortuning it every round. Since the farseer was alone it was IC. In that situation i fired everything in my army at it (well, almost. 3 fireknife, 12 kroot, 12 firewarriors - the rest of my army was fighting off stinging scorps and dire avengers elsewehre) and didnt put a single wound on the avatar until the farseer got caught more than 12 (6? don't remember range of Fortune) inches away.

In /that/ case the best bet is to get a unit close enough to the farseer to remove it.

Unforutntly with the Farseer part of the squad recieving the bonus of fortune... ugh. Best bet i can see is just poor as much fire into it as possible. Firestorms will do better against the invuln saves than fireknifes. Also, maybe an o'ninja to tie it up?

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onlainari
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Post#3 » Jan 13 2007 02:37

This really is a good unit and not much you can really do about it.

I would avoid them, and if I get the chance, rapid fire drop fire warriors onto them (forcing torrent on the farseer). I would also like to tie them up with kroot if I had the chance.
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Mephet'ran
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Post#4 » Jan 13 2007 09:32

The solution is fairly simple:

He is only hard to kill when his save is invulnerable, when it isn't no fortune in the world will save him against plasma fire.
Theoretically he could turbo-boost every turn, but then he can't do anything. As soon as he wants to shoot or assault he can't turbo boost, so you can nail him with plasma fire.
So bait him. I take it you're talking about Shining Spears and not Guardian Jetbikes so assault is his thing. Let him assault a Crisis unit, then just make sure that your other Crisis are in range to rapid fire plasma at him when he wins the assault.
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RedTau
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Post#5 » Jan 13 2007 11:51

I think Mephet'ran's answer is the right one. Though they could easily be Guardian Bikers as the attached Autarch would certainly have some sort power weapon and enough attacks to beat up a Crisis unit.

Another way to block them long enough for you to get in position is a Drone Block. I tried this against a Dark Eldar army last night and it actually worked rather well. A unit of Drones spread around you Crisis unit makes it much harder for them to get to you in CC. My unit of 8 Gun Drones placed in an arc in front of the XV8s forced the DE player to go after them first. The 4 remaining drones between the bikes and the suits where enough to hold him for a turn and the DE where unwilling to consolidate into the suits and lose their charge bonuses. I shot him to pieces. This might be a "fool me once..." kind of trick, but it will make him think twice before diving into that again.

Mind you I still got creamed. But it was a good learning experience.

Mephet'ran wrote:The solution is fairly simple:

He is only hard to kill when his save is invulnerable, when it isn't no fortune in the world will save him against plasma fire.
Theoretically he could turbo-boost every turn, but then he can't do anything. As soon as he wants to shoot or assault he can't turbo boost, so you can nail him with plasma fire.
So bait him. I take it you're talking about Shining Spears and not Guardian Jetbikes so assault is his thing. Let him assault a Crisis unit, then just make sure that your other Crisis are in range to rapid fire plasma at him when he wins the assault.

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lynkfox
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Post#6 » Jan 13 2007 12:10

massed fire is the only solution, but 1) Fortune allowing reroll armor saves and the bikes actually getting a save against us and 2) the other bikes in the squad will pop before the farseer.

Its not as easy as it sounds.

also, The DE player was silly then. Sure he looses the charge attack, but better to consolodate into CC and deny the XV8s the charge attack or stop them from shooting. definitely a fool me once tactic i think (and unfortunately wouldnt work with my group, they would just consolodatei nto my suits. Loosing the charge is sad, but not cause for grief among my friend when ccing against tau

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Post#7 » Jan 13 2007 12:27

massed fire is the only solution, but 1) Fortune allowing reroll armor saves and the bikes actually getting a save against us and 2) the other bikes in the squad will pop before the farseer.

Mass fire the only solution ? You're joking right ? Did you just ignore what I wrote ?

Here's why mass fire isn't a solution at all:

To kill 3 Shining Spear + Farsser w/ Fortune you need 81 pulse hits on average.
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lynkfox
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Post#8 » Jan 13 2007 01:36

right. i missread. Thought you wrote it the opposite way. :roll: :?

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Elstur
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Post#9 » Jan 13 2007 02:43

Mephet'ran wrote:The solution is fairly simple:

He is only hard to kill when his save is invulnerable, when it isn't no fortune in the world will save him against plasma fire.
Theoretically he could turbo-boost every turn, but then he can't do anything. As soon as he wants to shoot or assault he can't turbo boost, so you can nail him with plasma fire.
So bait him. I take it you're talking about Shining Spears and not Guardian Jetbikes so assault is his thing. Let him assault a Crisis unit, then just make sure that your other Crisis are in range to rapid fire plasma at him when he wins the assault.


The problem I had with this was his 18" charge range. He can turbo turn 1 and get into my deployment zone pretty much. Next turn he fortunes, then splits off and moves 12 and assaults multiple targets. His bikes ended up killing a kroot squad, 350 points of crisis units, and blowing off a railgun with that str 9 spear. Any turn that of mine that ends with his units locked he just hit and runs to get his powerweapon charge again.
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Post#10 » Jan 13 2007 02:54

Guardian Jetbikes cannot pick up the H&R USR. They must be Spears.

it is, however, worth noting that the Eldar player can abuse that hit and run USR with an appropriate mix of luck and intelligence.

See, theoretically, if he thinks he's going to win the combat against you in the first round (and why woundn't he, that unit has something close to 15 S6 power weapon attacks) he can choose to H&R at the end of that first turn of combat, forgoing the massacre result in order to flee 3d6 inches in any direction. This could bring him out of range/LOS of the deadly parts of your army (FK suits, ionheads and the like). Otherwise, he could also choose to not swing with a goodly portion of the squad, instead nominating only the Autarch to swing with his 5-6 las lance attacks.


so basically, were I the Eldar player and expected a bait tactic, I'd do one of a few things based on number of enemy wounds (this all assumes that some piece of terrain or a vehicle wreck is within the average fall back move)

1) agaisnt models with 4 or less wounds total, H&R
2) against models with 5 - 14 wounds total, swing away, lessening the number of Spears that swing such that we makes sure that even on a maximum roll, we don't frag EVERYTHING
3) against models with more than 14 wounds, swing and swing some more.

Of course, in cases 2 and 3 we still H&R, but during the Tau player turn so that we can H&R past the enemy battle line and start tagging the hidden crisis teams and rear armour on stunned fish/hammerheads.

Shining Spears, while costly, can be incredible if used correctly. Also keep in mind that by virtue of the Spears' small unit size, there's a chance that the Eldar player can keep portions of thier assault targets outside of the kill box and that you won't be receiving any morale penalties due to outnumbering (a bad thing in this case)

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Post#11 » Jan 13 2007 03:20

You know that you can't H&R if you've destroyed the target you assaulted right ? Which means that the Eldar player is gambling on the fact that he will not massacre the unit he assaulted. Against Crisis it is very likely that he won't massacre the unit because he doesn't have to use the lances, he can hit with his normal S3 attacks. However doing so won't help him much, because they only way he is really going to make headway against Crisis in cc is by using the lances, with his standard S3 he'll be there for ages.

Units of Spears + Fortune are a real problem for Tau. However it boils down for a unit for unit thing: he kills a Crisis unit, I kill the spear unit, etc etc. Basically trading units, which he will lose as I have more Crisis units than he has spear units.
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Post#12 » Jan 13 2007 05:27

But then, I wouldn't be charging the Crisis until I've crumpled the surrounding squads that are able to devote fire. I usually use my assault element (even against Tau) as a mid-end game hammer, using them as a counter asault unit in the early game until my big scary Eldar guns can pick apart whatever gunline the enemy decided to manifest (even in Mech Tau, we develop gunlines. The gunline just doesn't stick around for more than a turn at a time.) in fact, I did exactly this in my last game against a Mech Tau player, slamming the ionheads, railheads, fire warrior teams, and piranha that were near the Crisis team so as to isolate it before sweeping in with my "assassin" Autarch and cleaning house.

bikes of either type are pretty difficult to deal with. their wide threat range and turbo boost capability lend to some truely lose/lose situations if done properly. That said, a mech player probably shouldn't devote a lot of fire to a bike squad unless the squad in question decides to turbo boost into your face. Even if they do, use your movement capability and jet directly away 12 inches and point your chin at the bikes. They can only assault the front of your DFish which will require 6's and 6's again. Crisis teams get a bit shafted, but if you suspect your crisis team will be caught in the Bikes' 18 inch threat range, use them as Meph recommended, as a bait unit and hope for some luck and a less intelligent opponent. Oh, and this actually makes a pretty good argument for using monat suits or two man teams with no drones. You want the Spears to kill your entire unit during the eldar turn so that you have a green light for firing.

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Elstur
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Post#13 » Jan 13 2007 06:36

Hmm ok thanks for all of the tips. Perhaps I can try positioning the shield drones behind the suits to increase the chances of the suits dieing and being able to shoot into the bikes the next turn.
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