New guy - 500 pt vs Necron, what to do?

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
KMJS
Shas
Posts: 5

New guy - 500 pt vs Necron, what to do?

Post#1 » Apr 02 2007 06:22

Hey Party People,

First post first question! Been reading up on the great strategist's strategies here.

I have to say in advance that I'm relatively new to the Game aspect of WH40k, I have yet to play a proper game. That said, I think I have a very good understandin of the workings of the game and the Tau Tactics from reading what the good people here have to say.

I've got enough Tau to put togeter a 700 - 800 pt Army, but I don't have them all painted or even assembled yet.
What I have:
About 24 FW (12 done)
6 SS (2 done)
some 15 GD (4 done)
4 XV8 (1 done with variable Heads & Wpns)
20 or so Kroot (none done)
a Devilfish (done)

Well, here's the question (or rather the situation I need some help with) finally:
I got a standin invitation by an employee at a local GW to come play him whenever I get my first 500pts painted. I happen to know that his standart 500 pt army is a Necron 2x10 Warrior + Lord w/ orb = 500pts exactly. That's what he'll throw at anyone walking in wanting a 500 pt battle.
So I spent all day considering my options. The Necron Warriors are basically Marines with Stim Injectors, so he'll put me below scoring long before I can even shoot up one of his squads. Plus my FW will have run off the board by then. I really don't know what to field against him. Kroot??
Anyway, the best solution I came up with was a Ninja'O. It sounds crazy for a 500 pt game, but at about 130 pts he still comes cheaper than the Lord.

Since he has all his firepower in just two squads, if I can tie up one, I essentially split his army in half.
I'll give him first turn and hope he'll advance (which he'll doubtlessly do, since he needs to get into 24" range).
So in my first turn I'd jump my 'O up to the necrons, IC shielded by 5 GDs (5 to offest both 25% and 50% by 1 model). They are decent non-scoring shields. If they take any fire, all the better, I don't need them next round anyway, and it's one less squad firing at my main force.
I'll try to get a wound on the lord during the approach, to knock some VPs off him.
Next turn I should be able to reach one Warrior squad. I'll engage them in CC.
They'll have to pile in at the end of the CCphase, preventing the lord or the other squad from getting involved. The rest in Ninja'O 101:
tie them up during their phase, hop out and back in during mine.
The chances of me taking a wound from them are fairly low and even if I do, a wound on his lord is worth even more than a wound on my 'O. I can not kill the whoe squad in CC of course, unless by a stroke of luck I manage to break and sweep them.

Now the Necron has two options. He can stay with the tied up squad (good for me) for the WBB, which essentially halves his army, since half his models can't do anything during his phase, but can all be shot at during mine.
Or, he'll come at me with his Lord and 2nd Squad, essentially leaving the 1st squad without a WBB (good for me as well!) but that would mean he's forcing a CC with his Lord (bad for me). His equally bad-at CC Warriors would still own my FWs, since they're three times as tough, and the lord especially would rape my lines.

If he does that, I could slingshot out of the meelee after his CC phase and engage the other squad. This could potentially leave his Lord without an IC shield, if the new Meelee doesn't block LOS. Or I could engage the Lord, but that could be dangerous.
I dunno about this, it could backfire by freeing up the other squad to catch up with them.

Can I do anything if he comes at me? Even if I can't, I think I've severely decreased the attractivenes of a Charge by tying up one squad.


I don't really know. What do you guys think? Is this all dumb? What else can I do against 20 MEQs with WBB?
I think I need to split his force. That's the only thing that works against Necrons.
You know what models I have, but feel free to suggest anything else and if it's a useful model in the long run I'll probably buy it.

If you agree on the Ninja'O, I'd also like to hear what you'd suggest for the rest of the force. I need maximum MEQ kicking.

Thanks for reading and for all advice you can hopefully give me!

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White Knight
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 291

Post#2 » Apr 02 2007 07:25

At 500 points, and given the details you've provided, he is opting to take a very slow titanium block of an army - and this does provide some useful loopholes to exploit.

First, his range - 24 inches, max, 18 lethal. SO you are really looking to exploit your speed and range to the max.

You should be looking at XV8s, as many as poss and as cheap as poss. THe arguement versus Necrons is that 3+ save with WBB - you can't do much about the WBB, so I'd be looking to use Fire Storm configs (Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Multitracker, and a row of totally non-shocked glances from the ATT Vets) and do a standard Jump-shhot and jump, so you always end up out of his move/rapid fire range, or out of LOS.

I'd even go so far as to do this on Your HQ(s)

Here is a sample set up...

HQ
Shas'el XV8
  • Burst Cannon;
  • Missile Pod;
  • Targeting Array;
  • HW Multitracker;
85 points

HQ
Shas'el XV8
  • Burst Cannon;
  • Missile Pod;
  • Targeting Array;
  • HW Multitracker;
85 points

Troops
6 Shas'la Fire Warriors
  • Pulse Rifles;
60 points

Troops
6 Shas'la Fire Warriors
  • Pulse Rifles;
60 points

Elite
Shas'ui XV8
  • Burst Cannon;
  • Missile Pod;
  • Multitracker;
50 points

Elite
Shas'ui XV8
  • Burst Cannon;
  • Missile Pod;
  • Multitracker;
50 points

Fast Attack
4 Kor'vesa Gun Drones
  • TwL Pulse Carbines;
48 points

Fast Attack
5 Kor'vesa Gun Drones
  • TwL Pulse Carbines;
60 points

Should come to 498 points.

The plan? Keep on plinking away at his troops - statistically, you will down between 5 and 6 Necrons per turn, with half that ressing. However, on top of that, you have the small potential for pinning him for a turn, or vastly out doing yourself and killing far more - the key is to make sure he has to slog after you. Be careful with terrain placement, and you should do fine.

Do NOT seek Close Combat; you will die. The Ninja'O is all well and good, but why even bother getting that close? If you really need a turn's respite from his dogged pursuit, send in a unit of the drones. If you keep your range and just pour fire into him, you'll only lose if you let him get a shot in at his target. Don't be afraid to back off your Fire Warriro teams rather than taking a last shot - the longer you stay out of range, the better your chance of winning. Going in close only allows his lord the chance to beat you up soundly. Don't do it.

Incidentally, if this does not sound great, it's because the Tau lack a lot of killing power at these lower points levels, since we are fire and move specialists. Give us twice as many points and we can focus twice as much fire on the same target with twice as much success or more :-)

Hope some of this is useful. :-)
Last edited by White Knight on Apr 02 2007 07:31, edited 1 time in total.
Firestorm - Shoot lots and watch what drops...

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Shas'o Amaliel
Fio
Posts: 120

Post#3 » Apr 02 2007 07:28

I suggest.... buying more minis! :D

HQ:
Shas'el - TWMP VRT SI
Troop
5x Firewarrior
-Shas'ui - markerlight Bonding knife

5x Firewarrior
-Shas'ui - markerlight Bonding knife

Heavy support
1x Hammerhead - Ion Cannon burst cannons
1x Hammerhead - Ion Cannon burst cannons

Fight cheese with cheese! Let him slog after you as you hit him with 6 no armor save shots from across the board and a missile pod out of range. When he gets within 18" move towards him and fire everything you got.
It is the calm and silent water that drowns a man

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White Knight
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 291

Post#4 » Apr 02 2007 07:34

Funny - I don't actually see a whole lot of cheese here - this will kill the same amount of Crons, stats-wise, while lacking the chance to exceed those stats (variance, how we love thee) and also providing your foe with less targets to worry about - He hits one of those Ion Cannon Hammerheads, and it's all over, and trust me - hiding a Hammerhead in a game like this will be tough; two? Oh, dear... :fear:
Last edited by White Knight on Apr 02 2007 07:37, edited 1 time in total.
Firestorm - Shoot lots and watch what drops...

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Shas'o Amaliel
Fio
Posts: 120

Post#5 » Apr 02 2007 07:37

White Knight wrote:Funny - I don't actually see a whole lot of cheese here - this will kill the same amount of Crons, stats-wise, while lacking the chance to exceed those stats (variance, how we love thee) and also providing your foe with less targets to worry about - He hits one of those Ion Cannon Hammerheads, and it's all over, and trust me - hiding a Hammerhead in a game like this will be tough; two? Oh, dear... :fear:


bah, keep them in the corners the closest he can be to your board edge is 36". That gives you two turns of definite no taking damage and two turns of possible damage. He's only got 22 models, 50% chance of standup, that's on average 7 kills before he can take shots at you.
It is the calm and silent water that drowns a man

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White Knight
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 291

Post#6 » Apr 02 2007 07:46

That's assuming the board is a 4 by 4, and that you can actually cram you Ions into the corners, and that he doesn't decide to start in cover from the aforementioned tanks.

Example - he sees the two tanks being brought out at the start of the game, plants heavy terrain mid-table during set up, and just sits there. Now what? You go hunting, and you'll end up closer and much more likely dead. You sit there, and have a very boring 6 turns where no-one wins...

:sad:
Firestorm - Shoot lots and watch what drops...

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Shas'o Amaliel
Fio
Posts: 120

Post#7 » Apr 02 2007 07:50

Your enemy deploys all the terrain? If he starts moving in cover he starts moving slowly. Cover is a disadvantage to whatever army design you pick though. I mean hell, even you said it in your strategy "Be careful with terrain placement, and you should do fine. "

You are just using numbers, I am suggesting strength. Burst cannons and drones also bring you within their shooting range. For your list, why not ditch one of the drone squadrons and run another crisis suit
It is the calm and silent water that drowns a man

smasher32
Shas
Posts: 19

Post#8 » Apr 02 2007 09:52

if you play on a 4x4, take as many missile pods and plasma rifles as you can (fireknife setup). also, fire warriors are nice with the awesome amounts of range.

just remember for the necrons you are playing against: if they shoot, they cant move. and if they move, they cant shoot (unless theyre really close, but make sure that doesnt happen. :fear: )

TacCom
Shas
Posts: 13

Post#9 » Apr 02 2007 11:43

If you are running pulse carbines, just watch though that if you move up 6" to get within 18" to fire, that puts him within rapid-fire range of the Fire Warriors. It's not a huge deal, but just something to watch out for.

Also, it would be better to stick with Firestorm here instead of Fireknife. Mainly for the reason that Fireknife won't get as much effectivness outside of it's rapid fire range, and if you can rapid fire them, they can rapid fire you, and thier's is going to hurt a lot more. Keeping that 6" buffer against the lumbering metalic constructs with Firestorm will allow you to bring full arms to bear and still keep out of range (unless he wants to stand and shoot, which will simply put you at more of an advantage since you can dance around him all day). Even though you don't have the low AP, any good stealth suit user knows this motto, "don't care it's armour save, it'll go down to enough shots." By having the sheer volume of firepower on them all game, they will simply drop one by one and you will suffer minimal casualties if you plan your movement right.

Good luck out there.

TacCom
Shas'O of the Sa'Cea Night Hounds

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Shas'O_Mont'yre_Taku
Shas
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Post#10 » Apr 03 2007 12:09

don't forget that all important ability...Deep Strike. If it is being allowed, DS a couple suits so that on the first turn you are able to JSJ him. This will immediatly draw his attention as he will want to take those XV-8s out since they are the closest threat. OR if you don't want to risk it, use a Kor'vesa squad or two to instill that fear. He wont think much of the Batteries not included rejects until they light up his squad or better yet his lord....you should get 6 hits with your TL, that is just the average, and hopefully a wound if the dice gods are favoring you that day. Wk wont steer you wrong, his FS are battle tested and after trying them I never picked up a FK again....Why get 12 in when you can sit back 18 or further....

Atomic
Shas
Posts: 193

Post#11 » Apr 03 2007 12:47

Personally I think your ninja'o idea is the best. Take a kroot squad, some firewarriors and a helios ninja'o, then fill the rest of the points up with fireknives. Plasma would be preferable to burst cannons here, I think - The less dice he gets to roll the better for you!

KMJS
Shas
Posts: 5

Post#12 » Apr 03 2007 02:49

Thanks so much for all the input guys!

All boards in that GW store are 4 by 4.

WK:
That sounds good, but what do I do if he advances on me in a broad line to prevent me from dancing around him?
Since I haven't developed a feel for the game yet, I'm really affraid of how close and personal the boards really are. Maybe I'm overthinking this.

Tarma
Shas
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Post#13 » Apr 03 2007 02:51

I've ran White Knight's army through several different play tests and have come to the conclusion that his army will most definitely outshoot the opposing necron list at a 24" firefight (not to mention the advantages of early game MP plinking). If the necrons decide to advance, then they will have to forgo a turn of shooting to do so. This should be to your advantage as you can always fall back 6" in your next turn with JSJ. I think it's a great counter to your opponent's necron list.

However, may I recommend that you use these units?

97 - Shas'el w/ PR, MP, TA, MT
97 - Shas'el w/ PR, MP, TA, MT

62 - Shas'ui w/ PR, MP, MT
62 - Shas'ui w/ PR, MP, MT
62 - Shas'ui w/ PR, MP, MT

60 - 6 FCW
60 - 6 FCW

This list has the exact same kill rate against necrons (in a +24" firefight) as the firestorm list. However, you now have the ability to stay outside of the necrons fire range thus minimizing your risk of losing units.

I'm guessing that if your opponent has choice in deciding terrain placement then you do as well. If he should place LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the board, your move should be to place a terrain piece as close as possible to each long table edge. By doing so you give yourself LOS blocking terrain to fall back to once the necrons reach the middle of the board. You can then JSJ and possibly rapid fire them as they are forced to advance upon you.

This list would also be flexible in the event your opponent should decide to field something different than the necron warrior block. Say he fields some destroyers. All that AP4 he might field could tear up your drone units. And you will now have to be on the offensive to utilize your low range weapons (which might limit which terrain you can hide in).

IMHO you should just plink him away from afar and preserve victory points. If midboard terrain should hamper this strategy, try falling back behind terrain inside your deployment zone and wait for him. And if that isn't an option then try luring him into the middle of the board with the troops and 1-2 suits you will keep in your Deployment zone (remember to pick to go second). Your reserve suits should arrive by the time he reaches the middle. Drop your reserves in his deployment zone and catch him in crossfire.

I hate to preach FK like this. But in this situation they do seem to carry a tactical advantage.

KMJS
Shas
Posts: 5

Post#14 » Apr 03 2007 07:05

By "drop" you mean DS them, I presume?
Or is there a rule that allows my XV8s to enter in his deployment zone? I thought only Grey knight scouts could do that.

Tarma
Shas
Posts: 30
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Post#15 » Apr 03 2007 08:00

My mistake. I was a little unclear there. By drop I do mean deep strike. Although, I'm now re-evaluating the deep striking strategy to try and make it less dangerous.

New things to look out for:

By your second turn the necrons should be about 18-21 inches away from their long table edge (depending on how many inches long their deployment zone was at the start of the game). If you are unlucky enough to have some suits arrive from reserve by turn 2, just drop them into your own deployment zone. By turn three you should still have 1 or 2 suits showing up from reserve, and now the necrons should be 6" closer to the middle of the board. You can now drop these suits into your enemy's deployment zone. The reasons for waiting till turn three to start dropping suits in his deployment zone is that during turn 2 it is too risky to try such a deep strike so close to the enemy (best to let him walk a little more towards the middle, giving you more room to play with and stopping you from scattering within 18" of all his rapid fire guns.

Now after looking back on this strategy, I feel that 2 Firestorm suits would fit the role quite nicely. They are cheaper, saving you points which you could spend on a positional relay. And they would fill the role as deep strikers far better than FK could. Having both FK and FS suits could also provide much flexibility in the event you decide not to deep strike.

Perhaps this list would perform better:

97 - Shas'el w/ PR, MP, TA, MT
102 - Shas'el w/ PR, MP, Positional Relay, MT

80 - Shas'ui w/ Tm-Ld, PR, MP, TA, MT, BSF
50 - Shas'ui w/ BC, MP, MT
50 - Shas'ui w/ BC, MP, MT

60 - 6 FCW
60 - 6 FCW

499pts

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shaddowtau
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Post#16 » Apr 12 2007 12:52

Please forgive me if this is a stuipd question (I was up until almost 1am watchin the first game of the vancouver vs dallas stanley cup playoff last night, i think is was the 4th or 5th longest game in history, 4 overtime periods, 7 total!! anyways I'm very tired lol) but I don't see the advantage of the Firestorm over the Fireknife when you have to get within 18 inches of the enemy to gain 1 extra shot, and a weaker one at that... does the descripion of the battlesuit in the codex not say that due to its advanced design it can absorb the recoil of rapid fire weapons? I have not played more than KMJS, infact my ONLY real game was against necron although that was far more than 500 pts and a little over 2 years ago. But I took this recoil absorption to mean that it allows the suit to rapid fire at maximum range, 24"...if I am in error please tell me before i go and make an ass of myself by inadvertently cheating... :P
GIR! You get taquitos AFTER we kill the filthy humans!

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rabid
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Post#17 » Apr 12 2007 01:49

Haha, my teacher was staying up for that game... We didn't do anything in class today.

What the rules mean is that it can always fire once at maximum range even when it moves, as well as being able to charge into CC after firing a rapid fire weapon.

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