Dark Angels Strenghts/Weaknesses rough overview vs Tau?

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Joe
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Dark Angels Strenghts/Weaknesses rough overview vs Tau?

Post#1 » May 07 2007 04:52

Hi,

Do you have experience with Ravenwing armies of Dark Angels - mainly Bike squadrons supported with DA skimmers and possibly other support units?

What would be the strenghts and weaknesses of such a DA army (their mobility for one) vs. a Tau force?

And with a 1000 pts. (roughly) of Ravenwing what would be the best Tau-counter to them?

Very rough list of DA (from a WIP army building from my friend):

Code: Select all

HQ:
Sammael, Gran Master of Ravenwing

Troops:

2xRavenwing attack squadron
6x Bike, 1x Attack bike

1xRavenwing support squadron
2x Land Speeder (1xmultimelta/typhoon louncher 1xheavy bolter/assault cannon)


He is fiddling with the Weapons yet, maybe towards melta on Attack bikes. And he is also thinking about dropping the Land Speeder and adding another Bike Unit.

What do you think? (not about the army as it is a WIP yet, but about the DA force as an opponent to Tau?)

Joe
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Farsightwarrior01
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Post#2 » May 07 2007 08:53

Joe, if you have the new DA codex, the entry you are going to be really concerned with is the section where it says: MOVE AS SCOUTS. The issue isnt going to be mainly how many melta weapons hes going to have. Its the range of how many models that are either going to be in hand to hand or assault cannons that are going to be right on top of you.
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Joe
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Post#3 » May 07 2007 09:08

So the bikes can practically move before anything else (right after deployment) 12" (or 24" with Turbo-boosters if they want?) and end up pretty close...

Fearsome to some extent indeed...
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Farsightwarrior01
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Post#4 » May 07 2007 09:35

Yup, thats the main thing. Its a first turn one trick pony. If you can get the drop on him and at least remove some of the bikes, you wont have much of an issue because his skimmers don't gain the benifit of terrain unless hes behind it. His skimmers will be moving 12"+ a turn so even with AV 10 you will be glancing.
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lynkfox
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Post#5 » May 07 2007 12:54

scout rule in the new DA codex specifically says the bikes may NOT turbo burst in their scout. But yes, 12 inches.

The armies that will be /really/ scary for DA is the mixed Ravenwing/Deathwing. 12 inch scout movement then a Deathwing Assault so you have Assault Termies 12 inches in front of the main line? in some missions, 24 inches is the space between deployment zones.... 12 inches move, teleport homer on all bikes, so within 6 inches of the front bike... 6 inch movement, 6 inch assault... true they cant assault first turn (or move either) but ... there they are. assault termies + bikes right behind them... a mere 12 inches from your line...

how to deal with it? deploy further back, JSJ, and make use of that terrain to split his army

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Y'he Sha'is
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Post#6 » May 07 2007 02:04

For some reason, I don't think that you can turbo-boost on a scout move. I don't remember were I heard/read it, but I think you should definitely check on it. It's one of those inklings I can't seem to get rid of.

For a ravenwing list (or double wing), a lot will be dependent on who gets the first turn. On a 4' table, after 12" of deployment, and a 12" scout move, they can be within charge range first turn if you are not careful in your deployment. That's the negative. They also can have a large number of units, which can seriously dilute your shooting ability, and make movement more difficult.

The positive side is you can use their lack/loss of certain skills to your advantage. They no longer have skilled riders (cover now induces dangerous terrain tests), and they don't have a jink save either. The loss of skilled riders will make people that much more reluctant to move into/through terrain with their expensive models.

Just my two cents.
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midnight
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Post#7 » May 08 2007 09:44

My experience against them in a tournament:

BA player sets up, I set up as well. I put infiltrators in for pushback. He then scout moves almost everything so they are going to be able to assault turn 1. He expects first turn and loses it. I kill all of an entire flank of 6 bikes, blow away all but a multi-melta bike and a meltagun bike on the other flank. Terminators drop next to multi-melta bike. All his bikes have teleport homers. Remember that and kill them.


Against a good player the first turn means you die because he meltas tanks and then mops up troops. Against a bad player he assaults because a unit of stealths die to bikes and so he can be assured a kill. Except they don't and he lost an opportunity to kill a tank. Terminators are dealt with by deep striking a helios suit in nearby or having a unit of burning eyes. These will scare him enough that the bikes will ignore the tanks and go for them.

Keep a helios 'el in reserve, deep strike it behind the master of the ravenwing and go to town. Fireknives work great too against any speeder. If the termies appear next to your line, shift the line away while pouring fire into anything supporting the termies. Don't worry about them as much as 1 assault cannon is not as bad as 2.

My game ended with his termies surrounded by everything in my army that could see them including a fusion piranha and them sucking os much massed fire that they weren't staying up. Bikes are expensive and still squishy when they face plasma, fusion, Ion, and rail.
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M'yen Mont'Ka
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On the other hand

Post#8 » May 08 2007 08:30

Multiwing armies start hurting when they get first turn

Scout 12" -> Turbo Boost 24" -> Teleport Homer 6"

Hi, I've just precision-dropped a team of Terminators 42" in front of my deployment zone on turn 1.
:eek:
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Kor'Ui
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Post#9 » May 08 2007 09:24

Thats a prime target for Fusion piranhas with ML support....bikes.

Much more reliable than DS, and can form a wall.
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kai'lore
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Post#10 » May 08 2007 10:54

ML -> Vespid too.

Seeker Missiles are a good trade for the bikes.

Sniper Drones.

Rapid firing Crisis teams for the Termies.

Double Wing will be at least a third of their army, nice if you can get that out of the way early on.
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Kor'Ui
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Post#11 » May 08 2007 11:09

kai'lore wrote:Seeker Missiles are a good trade for the bikes.


Figured that was a given but absolutley agree. Destroyers are also prime targets for seekers but necrons in general are so.

Light vehicle squadrons are also great targets for seekers.

If you are kitted with seekers you can leave some Crisis MP behind for whatever else you feel like mounting on your "Crisis of the day".

You will not truly appreciate seeker missles till you are proficient with effective target priority.

[kai- I understand that you are enjoying their use recently but this post is totally OT]
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Farsightwarrior01
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Post#12 » May 09 2007 06:39

Nope, you need to leave the seakers at home. Heres why:

1. you have to risk the ml in LOS. Again here comes the term right after the bike.

2. Plasma has rapid fire, and fusion has the AP. But your are adding another variable into the situation, and less variables are better, a la-sniper rifle. I hit on a 2+ I wounds... ah damm.

3. Its more points cost effective for suits vs something with a ml and having the ability to launch it. Even a whittled down PF squad is still expensive opposed to a XV8.
I am just some schmuck with a pulse rifle that gets by.

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Heron
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Post#13 » May 09 2007 10:40

Another thing that a RW list can present, beyond the troubliing first turn movement/terminator DS is a vast array of targets, due to their combat squad rules. Each RW choice breaks down into 4 different squads, each an independent unit. A RW list led by Sammael has 9 individual units simply through filling its mandatory HQ and 2 Troops reqs.

Such a list can do a lot of screening and tricky stuff that takes advantage of the MSU (multiple small units) potential. I have started such as list as my 2nd army, mainly because it seemed like a unique quality of the codex- lots of small units, everything is fearless and they all claim objectives.

I think that target locks are a must against this sort of list. Also Pirahna's are a real solid choice, since they can address the imbalance a little due to their being a 2 for one unit choice after their drones disembark. While its expensive, a stealth team with 2 FB with TA's and 4 BC each with a TL could be an interestingh option, if you could screen them with drones or pirahna's to keep them out of combat.

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