Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

Post#1 » Dec 14 2007 04:40

Previously on this board we have had discussions regarding around what necrons are capable of, their rules, their strengths and their weaknesses. What I would like to present are specific counters to their tactics, unit selection and how to win consistently against the "oldest threat."
For reference of rules that are covered elsewhere i have included their links here.
Redharvest
Tactica Draft 2
Mech Tau Tactica

I have used a Necron list that I have seen quite a few variants of, with the cores being the Monolith, the Destroyers, and the Scarabs. We will use this list in an attempt to discuss tactics that are used with these units, counters to these tactics, priority targets, reactions and last ditch efforts, and unit selection.

HQ
Lord, orb, veil of darkness = 200
Lord, warscythe, orb, destroyer body = 180

elite
6 immortals 168
6 immortals 168

troops
10 warriors 180
10 warriors 180
10 warriors 180


FA
4 destroyers 200
4 destroyers 200
3 scarab bases, DR fields = 48

Heavy
Monolith 235
Tomb Spyder 55

Total points =1994

A Tau list not designed to counter this list but one that has a variety of specialized and general units. This is a bench mark to try different tactics.
HQ
Shas'el - FK- 87
2x Vre - FK, TA - 164
Ethereal - 50

Troops
10x FW - Ui, BK, ML - 125
10x FW - Ui, BK, ML - 125
10x Kroot - 70
10x Kroot - 70

Elites
2x crisis- FK, MT - 124
2x crisis- FK, MT - 124
3x stealth - TLdr, ML, HWDC, 2x MD - 165

Fast
Piranha - TA, FB - 70
Piranha - TA, FB - 70
6x Path - Ui, BK - 99
Fish - MT, DL- 95
Heavy
Sky Ray - DL, TA, MT, BC - 155
Hammer - DL, TL, MT, SMS, 1xSM - 190
2x Broad - BASS, Tldr, TL, BK, 2x SD - 205

Deployment
Sparse Terrain - approximately 1/3 terrain. 4x Trees , 2 buildings, 3x hills
1 building, 1 tree in each deployment zone rest scattered near edges of deployment and center.
Image

The Necron Deployment
1 Warrior unit in the Trees, 1 unit in the building, 1 in the open, lord on foot near the unit in the tree
Both squads of Destroyers out of LOS behind the trees unit of Scarabs deployed in the open across from broadsides Lord on Destroyer body near them
Lord on foot near unit of immortals near trees, other immortal unit on flank in building

Now a tactical choice:
Monolith deployed in the center of all the necrons - M.1
Monolith Held off the table to DS turn 2/3 (hopefully) - M.2


Tau Deployment
Hammerhead behind trees out of LOS, Skyray behind building out of LOS, broadsides behind buildings out of LOS
1xunit of firewarriors in trees, 1x unit of kroot in trees behind FW, 1 x firewarrior on far side of hill, 1x kroot infiltrated in the building on the right to support against Scarabs

Fireknife unit in the center to use hill for JSJ, other HQ and FK by the trees for JSJ, Stealth Marker Team Infiltrated on top of hill in DZ
Shas'el and squad behind trees out of LOS for JSJ, Ethereal in building to join Pathfinders, to help LD and be visible across the board try to keep him 6" deep on the front end of the building so he can't be hit from torrents of fire from Destroyers. If it is too much of a risk just deploy him near the PF so that he can join them your first turn, you are going to need those extra marker lights to take out the higher priorities.
Path finders in building, Fish near by out of LOS, Piranha on either flank to come out Monolith or Destroyers

These deployments are how I have set up in these situations, going on the assumption that I had to deploy first, and that I like to minimize impact/importance of first turn.
With the broadsides new to my list I have learned that it is best to deploy them last (out of 3 HS choices) so that they can focus on 2/3 Tanks. Tank deployment, they move 12" and fire fire fire, so I try to keep them behind cover first turn. Warriors, I usually try to give them some cover and in this case 4 units can eat right through their armor 3+ to hit 2+ to kill.

Image

Scenario
Infiltrate, Deep strike
This is going to be a standard VP scenario(cleanse) as objectives would make it more difficult to look at responses etc. For now we will just try and combat the few major tactics used by the necrons in this engagement. We will also look at worse case scenarios a lot to keep with a precautionary side of playing and well nothing ever goes to plan right?! Ya gotta be flexible!

Turn 1 moves, responses, and potential results.
We are going to presume we lost the roll for first turn! OH NO! Happens right? Luckily we have deployed to minimize casualties and can see where our opponent's first moves might be. Expect your necron opponent to move every unit in his army. Why? Because of how we have deployed, he will need to move at least turn 1 to get his basic warriors and immortals into play.
I am going to label common tactics for defeating/ countering so that when we are discussing them we can refer back to them easier.

Target Priority
Against necrons and most armies it is difficult to select what classifies as TOP priorities and what must be killed. In this scenario I will use proximity of threat, plus mobility, plus potential damage output to define my threat/target priority.

Necron Tactica :
1.a Scarabs
Cheap, fast, fearless, what else do you need?
The scarabs will most likely be used to Turbo boost as far forward as they can turn 1. They get an invulnerable save which is needed against S6 weapons and are meant to tie up and harass enemy units. In this scenario, our deployment was paramount to how we can react to this unit. Kroot are going to be our best counter to this unit. The reason being we can deploy them as a response to the scarabs and can in turn tie them up from reaching our most valuable shooting units in this list, Pathfinders and Broadsides. A suitable response if you do not take Kroot is to use your fire warriors. They will most likely lose in HTH against the scarabs but they can buy you some time.
In this scenario lets assume they turbo boos t right up into the front of our entrenched Pathfinders. They can't make it into the building because of the difficult terrain + turbo boosting. Their placement is going to bump their threat factor to the top 2 priority on turn 1 if not priority 1. This is because they will cause a Target priority check and can wreck havoc if not controlled/countered. Use the High LD of the ethereal to pass this check (hopefully he is still alive and so are they) to fire at target priority number one. In some cases, very rarely, the scarabs will be the number one priority. They will make the top spot if there are more than 1 squad, you can get the jump on them (they didn't turbo or are out of cover) or there are a lot of bases. They will fall to target priority 3 in this case however as we have a counter to them at hand because we were so smart with our deployment! B)

1.b Countering the scarabs in this scenario
Hopefully the kroot didn't suffer too many casualties from the immortals and stuck around, lets presume they did and then presume they didn't.
    i. Move disembark your drones from the Devilfish to support the kroot, move your Devilfish up to the flank of the scarabs, position the Piranha drones to strike at them by disembarking them and following the DF drones example. Move your Sky ray up to fire its BC into them as well to the right of the building if you can make LOS or on top of the building, this is a tad dangerous as those Destroyers are still out there and the Ray will become their priority. After ripping the drones with Carbine(drones) and BC(Ray+DF) fire assault them with your kroot and drones. Hope to win the first round of combat. You should wound and hit them easier but die just as quickly! GO KROOT!

    ii. Damn kroot! Always getting wiped out first turn! Oh well, as per i. get the drones into position to assault. Bring the Railhead towards the hill with FW+SMT to fire SMS onto them, instead of moving your SR and DF to the flank create a wall with them. DF where the Kroot used to be, SR infront of the PF, and Piranha on the left side of the PF. Hold those Path finders firm we will need them.

1.c Countering Scarabs in general - best practices

Kroot
Kroot as I mentioned will be our best response to this unit. They are our dedicated speed bump unit, while I rarely recommend charging with this unit I recommend charging against scarabs. This is because it allows us more attacks , keeps them further from our lines, and allows us to prevent the HTH from potentially blocking LOS.

Instant Death
High strength shots from Submunition rounds or Ionheads. Try to take out whole bases rather than inflicting a lot of wounds The submunition round will also take 2 bases for every wound it inflicts as scarabs have the "Vulnerable to Blast" Rule, making it an excellent choice for taking out swarms.

Drones
Free drones from your piranha, devilfish and drones by themselves make good units to try and stem the turn 2 assault from scarabs.

2.a Destroyers
Shots on the Fireknives and Pathfinders will be the point of order for the destroyers in this list. They are going to want to get some shots on the FK on the left side of the board because they've deployed after the Elites and can hopefully flank to get some shot. To do this they will most likely bring the Destroyer Lord and one unit straight over the top of the forest while bringing the other unit behind the trees to the left for cover. Passing their Target Priority on LD 10 they will be able to maximize their 36" range on to the PF and plugging away at our valuable FK unit and supportive PF. They will most likely force a check on the FK suits and the PF unit. These guys are our Target priority numero uno. Their long range, quick movement and volume of shots, makes these guys a serious early threat. The majority of our shots are going to go against these 2 units (discounting the shots against the scarabs). They will put some serious hurt on our other units if we don't handle them quickly. Because of the positioning of the DL, they are GOING to get their WBB and having a Monolith on the table will ensure that they can get a second chance of getting their boys back up. The answer? Focus fire power. If he keeps the two units close together it is going to be very difficult to take out 8 destroyers in one turn. You are going to have to try... hard. If they are not kept together such as this case, focus on the unit you can see with the majority of your units

2.b Countering Destroyers in this scenario
It seems to be common sense that if something is tough and has a good save, take a high strength weapon with a low AP. Seekers, Plasma, Ion weaponry and mounds of high powered shots are going to be our answer here. We will need to take these guys out ASAP, especially because it means we can fire at the DL sooner rather than later. Something to keep in mind when shooting at them however is: plan out the shots you are going to take in order so that if the unit goes down you can still use your firepower on the other unit. The PF (hopefully still around) are going to Marker Light the closer of the 2 units. Presume they yield 2ML, this means you will also want to fire your Stealth Marker Team at the same unit, yielding 2 ML (we hope) and your Fire warriors get 1 ML, the SR gets 1 ML. Alpha Strike. Launch as many seekers as you can at these suckers, firing the Railheads first, and then whatever else. This should be enough to knock them out. If its not, and some unlucky dice roll are occurring, be sure to save 1/2 ML for you FK behind the hill, you are going to want to get those PR to hit. Depending on how many seekers have killed Destroyers be sure you fire one at a time to maximize your useful ML. As the Firewarriors have already been used to shoot at the Destroyer unit their guns are as good as any to take out the High Toughness Destroyers. Where the Seekers fail try to pick up the slack with Plasma from the FK squad and the HQ. The good BS of the one squad enables 1 ML to go a long way. USE IT! B)

If you are unsuccessful with the ML Alpha Strike, lets presume you hit with very few. You are going to have to use your Railhead and Broadsides to take out those buggers in conjunction with the rest of your army. Hitting these 2 units as hard as you can, with everything you've got will yield 2 results: Your skimmers will have a little more freedom to move around, and you can adjust quickly and accordingly.

If you are unable to take out a unit in the first round or are unable to get into range with them focus your Railhead shots into the monolith. Turn 2 these guys become your number 1 priority, but may take priority 2 because of the DL.

2.c Dealing with Destroyers in general

Crisis Suits
These guys are going to usually have the range and the fire power, Plasma, to fire back at these guys. They are going to really do the majority of your kills in most lists against the destroyers. Again focus the fire of 2 units to take out 1 before moving on to the next. Leaving 1 destroyer left is as good as leaving them all up.

Ionheads and Sky Rays
The amount of high strenght AP3 shots coming out of these 2 units should be enough to knock down a substantial portion of the unit leaving other units to pick off the remainder. They make good choices when dealing with a lot of destroyers.

3.a Monolith

There are two ways this scenario will play out. One it will be deployed turn 1 and present a juicy target for our 3 Railguns, or 2 they will deepstrike it and pull a unit of warriors through to rapid fire our suits and get additional shots from the flux arc.
    i. Deployed
    A necron player might start with this on the table(M.1) because he will want to get the washing effect for his high point destroyer units. The first turn you should expect a shot into your firewarriors on the hill. The short range of the large template means they will be likely targets. While the survival of this monstrosity is a something we need to address quickly it is not a priority that will require the majority of your attention turn 1. This list has 4 units dedicated to taking down the monolith, the railhead, the Broadsides, and the Piranha. You can wait until turn 2 to really focus on this puppy if he deploys it turn 1, because turn 2 he will most likely be washing units through it.

    ii. Counter to Deployed
    Shoot it. 3 railguns should be enough to take it out in 2 turns, and if not ML and swoop in with your Piranha. They can only penetrate the Monolith (need a 6) but it is worth it.

    iii. Deepstrike
    A necron player that sees 3 railguns in a list will highly consider deepstriking (M.2). This will allow him to pull warriors/immortals through as early as turn 2 and allow him to get into your face much quicker. Plus it means less shooting at this giant. Doing this will allow a unit that has not moved, the ability to teleport through the monolith, move, shoot and potentially assault(immortals).

    iv. Counter to Deepstrike
    Taking out the monolith becomes a much higher priority at this point, the last thing you want to do is leave this sucker alone in your ranks. The Flux arc will decimate your lines and potentially take out your skimmers to boot. To prevent units from getting too close to you, a worthy sacrifice would be the piranha. Sometimes its better to give up a small unit then suffer the losses of multiple squads. Positioning the Piranha, from the left flanks, in front of the area where you expect the monolith to come down does 3 things: allows your piranha(if it survives) good range to hit back at the monolith, forces a target priority check for your other units, and prevents an assault against one squad. In your turn use markerlights to buff your Broadsides, and fire them and the Railhead at it(presuming it is alive and/or can fire). If that fails hit it with Seekers and Fusion Guns. You have to get it down. 2 turns of it in your lines will allow 2 units to come through and mess you up.

3.b General counters to the monolith are obvious.
Railguns are the best choice but you don't always need to take it down immediately. Manage the threat level.

4.a Destroyer Lord
His quick movement, potentially turbo, high toughness 6, and power weapon in close combat means you do not want him to hit your lines. In this case he is a support unit to maximize the Destroyers while inching closer to your lines. Ion cannons and Seeker missiles are going to be your best chance at taking him out. In this scenario you should have 1 turn to get some shots onto him. He like the monolith are much more potent against our lines so you cannot allow him to go unmolested towards us.

4.b Countering the Destroyer Lord
In the event that he turbo boosts right at you turn 1, you are left little choice but to haul off with your closest units in trying to take him out. Accurate volumes of S5 weapons should put a damper on his effect next turn. At this stage unfortunately you can't do much but hope he fails his 50/50 will be back roll.

5.a Veil+Res Orb Lord on foot
This is your token 200 pt lord. You will see him a lot, in addition to being a support for his surrounding nasty warriors and immortals he represents a huge threat to our tanks and valuable suits. The veil will allow him to suddenly move a warrior squad within rapid fire of your Railhead, SkyRay, or Crisis Suits. This tactic will almost guarantee him a kill of your vehicle or unit. Its important to keep your units supported. I can't stress this enough. Think of it like chess, you don't want to have a piece taken without being able to take his piece.

5.b Countering VoD Lord
Devilfish tank shock anybody? If you have one available this tactic is great. You run a small chance of breaking the squad, leaving the lord exposed, make sure to ask if the lord has joined the squad before you do, and you also gain the benefit of putting your fish right between your warriors and the undead. Proper support of your units is important when dealing with this guy. Too often I have had a fish/unit/vehicle wiped with this tactic without a proper chance to respond. Support support support.

6.a Dealing with Lords in General
You do not want to get into hand to hand ever but you also do not want these guys doing their nasty little tricks. T5/6 and having only 3+ save means that the more hits you put on these guys the better. Tricky ways to deal with these guys is doing your best to separate the surrounding units from them leaving the baddies exposed. The DL in this scenario is a prime example because he would become the closest target if you were successful in taking out a unit of Destroyers. This forces the necron player to decide if he wants to risk his lord in a full out blitz or keep him moving with the other destroyers. Use your troop choices to whittle away his supporting units to try and get shots at the IC. You can also use tank shock to separate him from units that he hasn't joined. Don't forget this!

Utilizing these tactics you can pick out the larger threats in his army and then focus on reducing him to phase out over turns 3-6.
Good Luck!
I will add Responding to failed counters later as well as the Warrior and Immortal uses.
Tomb Spyders, Wraiths, heavy Destroyers, Warriors, Pariahs, Immortals and C'tan are next.
(to be continued)
Last edited by paidinfull on Jun 17 2008 10:58, edited 5 times in total.

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Post#2 » Dec 14 2007 04:56

Image

7a. Tomb Spyders
The Tomb Spyder is included in this list for its ability to allow a downed necron roll for its WBB even if there is no like model within 6". A cunning necron player will keep his spyder within 18" of his destroyers to confer this ability to them. Understanding that the enemy has deployed this bugger to allow this to happen enables you to potentially put a chink in his armor.

Previously when we were focusing on taking out 1 of the 2 destroyer units, our plan for success was knocking down all of the members of a single unit(presuming they were separated). Something I did not mention earlier is, that based on our enemy's deployment, our success is contingent on not only inflicting enough wounds to take down the destroyers but also taking out the Tomb Spyder. The Tomb Spyder is a unit that is best taken out early in a game rather than later. This is because once your opponent has an opportunity to start generating scarab bases it is going to be much more difficult to take out the spyder. Yes, scarabs mean that majority toughness goes from T6 to T3, but they're fearless and quite a few wounds.

7.b Countering the Tomb Spyder in this scenario
Since the Tomb Spyder is a support unit he isn't very high on our threat factor. Luckily, S5 pulse rifles, the fact that the TS is a monstrous creature, and our Fire Warriors have great range they make an excellent counter to this unit. Wait, didn't you say to use the Fire Warriors to fire at the destroyers? Yes, I did, which after your first turn attempt at alpha strike you should focus a unit of fire warriors and/or kroot at taking out the Tomb Spyder. You do not want this guy living past the 3rd turn. The reason being as he will be able to keep those destroyers around much longer than they should. If the monolith was deployed on the table first turn, shoot the Railhead at the TS. That wound plus a little luck and you should be able to down him fairly quickly.

If it is your intent on taking on the destroyers in this scenario by knocking one whole unit down at a time, the Tomb Spyder is a HIGH priority. With only 2 wounds and T6 3+ you will need a few units to take on this guy successfully.

7.c Dealing with Tomb Spyders in General

Fire Warriors
S5 and a decent number of shots are a good way to take down a 2 wound model. In this case you are using your support force to take out his support choice. A FoF tactic mid game should make short work of a tomb spyder with no scarab swarms

Ionhead/Sky Ray
As with the destroyer, if they don't get a save... they are less likely to get back up. The spyder does not get a WBB but can pump out a scarab base a turn making volumes of fire virtually worthless. High strength, Low AP weaponry make logical sense when taking on the spyder which is why these 2 units are well suited for this role.

8.a Warriors
The grunts, if they can be called that, perhaps the nuts to the bolts, of any necron army. As they are the only troop choice to the necrons you should see a lot of these buggers. In this list they are going to be used in a few different ways.
    i. After the monolith has moved, a unit of necron warriors within 18" can be sucked through the portal disembark 2", move 6" and then either shoot their rapid fire weapons, or assault. Their S4 weapons will do considerably well against our majority T3. Assault is also an option against our tau as they are better skilled in hand to hand and more resilient. As they can tie up a unit then get sucked out of HTH, by the monolith, to shoot or assault again.
    ii. Veil of Darkness with the lord allows him to effectively "teleport" a unit within 6" without joining. A warrior squad would benefit from this by getting within rapid fire range of a unit or a tank. In this scenario it is more likely that the opponent would use this ability to position a unit of ten warriors within rapid fire range of your XV8 crisis suits or either the RailHead or Sky Ray.
    iii. Slow foot slogging to get within 24" of your fire warriors and exchange, or just truck onto an objective and soak up fire

8.b Countering Warriors in this Scenario
The chances of the necron warriors being in your face before turn 3 is fairly unlikely though it really depends on whether or not your enemy has deep struck their Monolith. If your kroot managed to survive the shots from the immortals and the scrap with the scarabs, assaulting with the Kroot is a very viable option. Going on the presumption that the monolith has lasted through turn 1 or is being deep struck, the warriors should be in a good position to get assaulted by your kroot with the support of your FK HQ. Assault you say? Yes, assault. Running down a unit of necrons insures that they do NOT get their WBB. A round of shooting from the FK HQ plus their support on the charge means that the remaining Necrons will become outnumbered very quickly. With the number of attacks the kroot put out you can be sure that your enemy will be closer to phase out if you are successful in smashing him in hand to hand.

8.c General Counters to Warriors

Stealth Suits
The work horse of the Tau Empire. After infiltrating near the necron lines you should be able to whittle down the warriors through sheer volumes of fire power.

Kroot
The fact that the Kroot are going to go before the warriors means that assaulting them is a great idea. However 30 kroot attacks should only knock down 2 warriors in an assault and 8 warriors can do the same so remember to assault weakened units and do not charge into an assault outnumbered and expect to win.

9.a Immortals
24" S5 AP4 Assault2 weapons... that should be enough to scare any fire caste member. This means your fire warriors/pathfinders/kroot/drones/piranha will be shot to ribbons consistently. Rest assured you are going to want to put a hurt on these guys ASAP. Our list is going to need our core units to last until we can remove our big threats. The immortals assault weapons enable them to really put a hurt on our units while on the move. So where do they fall in the threat priority list? This really comes down to your successful execution of threat management. If you took out the Monolith, the destroyer, scarabs and tomb spyder these guys must be next. You should expect either them or the warriors to be in your face turn 2/3. The fact that these guys are also T5 is another pill that we have to swallow. The same tactics for fighting the warriors applies in this case however, while assaulting with the kroot might seem sensible it is actually going to be just as hard to bring them down... assuming they haven't been mowed down by the immortals on the way in.

9.b Countering the Immortals in this Scenario
Obviously with their assault weapons they are going to be a force to be reckoned with but dealing with their advance isn't as daunting as it may seem. By removing the ability to reroll their WBB from the Monolith and silencing the Tomb Spyder, you have actually really already hurt the Immortals. This is because they are smaller squads than the warriors and are still incredibly vulnerable to our AP3 and AP2 weapons. The FK HQ and your fire warriors are going to need to focus on this unit as it advances towards the middle of the game.

9.c General Counters for Immortals

Sniper Drones
The Low AP of the rail rifle with the ability to stand out in the open and not suffer return fire, make these guys great choices if you are going to see a lot immortals.

Crisis Suits
The "must knock them down now" unit. Helios configuration makes sense with the Low AP weaponry but FireKnife and Bladestorm will be your best configurations when taking them on due to the high strength and number of shots from the unit.
Last edited by paidinfull on Jun 17 2008 10:59, edited 3 times in total.

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Post#3 » Dec 14 2007 11:22

this is excellent work so far, looking forward to the part II!
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Post#4 » Jan 02 2008 03:18

part III place holder
expect to see:
10.a Wraiths
11.a Pariahs
12.a Heavy Destroyers
13.a C'tan
    i. the Deceiver
    ii. the Night Bringer

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Post#5 » Jan 03 2008 04:02

very good, still digesting. Very much appreciate your efforts on this!
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Post#6 » Jan 03 2008 06:03

[[[ This is nice to see a break down. Now, as for the way I have done a variation is to hit the scarabs with plasma shots,,,,I usually field a FK HQ, and squads of FK teams. ALL of his fast stuff is my first order to kill! always, this screws the Necrons plans when he has to move slowly. Now, rarely do I see the Monos out so early, usually one is a reserve unit for turn 2 or later to arrive to disrupt my lines if I have any to disrupt. The next things to kill are the remaining "Repair-web" units, IF he has sent his lord out alone he is a target, but usually they keep the lords within 6" of a unit and have him joined to one.

Tomb spiders, these are a big thing for them to loose, having a 12" to 12" between units repair ability is super handy to the 'Cron in front of you, kill the TS and he feels the pain!

Monos,,Railguns are what they fear! so give him plenty to fear! once his "Recycling bin and safety net" is gone, he now relies on having to survive fire through either his 3+ save, or WBB as long as we don't slap him silly with S8-10 weapons.

IF you are using "Static" gun-line, pour fire int the units closest to your lines, and make sure that more than one unit is firing, FW's+FK teams+Hammerheads/Broadsides kill a squad a turn till you phase him out, or he realizes that marching into a hail of fire is pointless.

I recommend Plasma/Fusion/Seekers/Ion-cannons/Rail-guns for the dealing of destruction to the crons, and plenty of Pulse fire!

Now, for Hybrid, I recommend same deal

Mechanized, pretty much whittle him down a flank AFTER you have destroyed his speedy units! scarabs are likely to be using disruption fields, so they have to be killed, and knock out the destroyers and destroyer lord! FK and BE suits are good. Ionhead and railhead for the taking out of monos(rail), and the tough units(Ion), Railguns then can use the sub-round to inflict massive amounts of saves to be rolled by the Necron

What NOT to take against Necrons.

Unless you are taking stealth suits,,,no crisis BC's, too short a range and not enough against the armor, smart missiles and pulse rifles are enough S5,AP5 weapons on the field.

I have found the CiB is sadly not that great against the metal monsters.

AFP, again short range and low power out put make this weapon all but useless against the Necrons.

That sums up what helps me kill the most dangerous prey of the metal monsters. Good Hunting!

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Post#7 » Jan 14 2008 09:16

hey Chris, nice write up. Since ATT moved servers I can log on here now (work had the old one blocked).

Have you played vs Doug lately with his 2x20 warrior squads? I've fought him to a tie before with my mech, but never got a win out. The 20 strong warrior mobs are just too damn big to kill. How would you deal with those?

Seth (and next time you play at GPW let me know and I'll bring my orks out to play)

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Re: Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

Post#8 » Jun 25 2008 07:41

Paidinful, may I know if Part III will be coming in the near future or will this have to wait for 5th ed?

In the meantime, as way of feedback, I've just had my first victory over the Necrons (after 3 defeats against them) and some of your points (especially in dealing with scarabs and destroyers) were spot on! Thank you!
Ka'ash Sept

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Re: Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

Post#9 » Jun 26 2008 04:18

First, should just say that it's a very well written, detailed breakdown. Nice work ;) .

However, I have a few issues;
Kroot are going to be our best counter to this unit. The reason being we can deploy them as a response to the scarabs and can in turn tie them up from reaching our most valuable shooting units in this list, Pathfinders and Broadsides. A suitable response if you do not take Kroot is to use your fire warriors. They will most likely lose in HTH against the scarabs but they can buy you some time.


You are making a weak argument here. Kroot are good, but they can't catch jetbikes, and jetbikes can just fly over them. Scarabs move like jetbikes. Also, it seems kinda silly to deliberately tie up one of your cheapest sources of massed S5 (which, notwithstanding my WIP Anti-Phalanx idea, seems to be the favoured way to destroy Warriors), on the Necrons weakest unit. Avoid combat, shoot them down with MP. If you have to counter-assault use Vespid, they are speedy enough to catch Scarabs. However, Vespid supply cheap AP3 firepower (ideal for knocking down Necrons to deny WBB), so again it's not always a good idea to enter combat.
In this scenario lets assume they turbo boos t right up into the front of our entrenched Pathfinders. They can't make it into the building because of the difficult terrain + turbo boosting. Their placement is going to bump their threat factor to the top 2 priority on turn 1 if not priority 1. This is because they will cause a Target priority check and can wreck havoc if not controlled/countered.


True LOS makes this a useless tactic for a Necron player; while the Pathfinders light up a different target, a Deathrain team or some Kroot can shoot up the Scarabs.

i. Move disembark your drones from the Devilfish to support the kroot, move your Devilfish up to the flank of the scarabs, position the Piranha drones to strike at them by disembarking them and following the DF drones example. Move your Sky ray up to fire its BC into them as well to the right of the building if you can make LOS or on top of the building, this is a tad dangerous as those Destroyers are still out there and the Ray will become their priority. After ripping the drones with Carbine(drones) and BC(Ray+DF) fire assault them with your kroot and drones. Hope to win the first round of combat. You should wound and hit them easier but die just as quickly! GO KROOT!

ii. Damn kroot! Always getting wiped out first turn! Oh well, as per i. get the drones into position to assault. Bring the Railhead towards the hill with FW+SMT to fire SMS onto them, instead of moving your SR and DF to the flank create a wall with them. DF where the Kroot used to be, SR infront of the PF, and Piranha on the left side of the PF. Hold those Path finders firm we will need them.


This a lot of effort to remove a tarpit unit. Scarabs are actually a drawback for Necrons, because it cuts down on the number of Destroyers they can field. A Deathrain team will easily clean them up, and you can finish them off with Kroot sniping or a Vespid assault.

Kroot
Kroot as I mentioned will be our best response to this unit. They are our dedicated speed bump unit, while I rarely recommend charging with this unit I recommend charging against scarabs. This is because it allows us more attacks , keeps them further from our lines, and allows us to prevent the HTH from potentially blocking LOS.


Kroot can't catch them though, and Scarabs can usually just fly right over the Carnivores.

Instant Death
High strength shots from Submunition rounds or Ionheads. Try to take out whole bases rather than inflicting a lot of wounds The submunition round will also take 2 bases for every wound it inflicts as scarabs have the "Vulnerable to Blast" Rule, making it an excellent choice for taking out swarms.


Again, this is a lot of effort to remove a tarpit unit. The Railhead (if not putting a big hole in the Monolith) should be subbing Warrior squads. The Ionhead even more so, it's our most reliable anti-Destroyer weapon (seekers being the other). If you are shooting up Scarabs with either of these units, it should be because you have killed everyone else (in which case Phase Out). Target priority is something you discuss at length, I would rate Warriors, Destroyers and teleporting Immortals as bigger problems than Scarabs.
Drones
Free drones from your piranha, devilfish and drones by themselves make good units to try and stem the turn 2 assault from scarabs.


This I definitely agree with. Drones are suprisingly good in combat (I4 and a 4+ save matters), and you can rely on free 2-man squadrons to delay Scarab rushes. Not to mention the pulse carbine shots you get in before you assault. On an actual 8-strong FA squadron, you can probably kill a few bases.

Crisis Suits
These guys are going to usually have the range and the fire power, Plasma, to fire back at these guys. They are going to really do the majority of your kills in most lists against the destroyers. Again focus the fire of 2 units to take out 1 before moving on to the next. Leaving 1 destroyer left is as good as leaving them all up.


I kinda half-agree here. The thing with plasma is, you only hit 50% (TA's are limited to higher ranks and markerlights are variables that affect the whole army). Factor in the high likelihood of cover saves on the Destroyers, and your kill-rate drops substantially. There is also the issue of range; Destroyers can easily out-range plasma, while shooting you up with their gauss cannons. If you are going to use Crisis to shoot up Destroyers, use Deathrains or pull back with Firestorms. FK doesn't have the accuracy or the neccessary ROF on the PR to be efficient. On your second point, I agree strongly. Game after game, I see Destroyers getting back from WBB, all because the last Destroyer wasn't dealt with. Tau are quite good at concentrating fire, and with Necrons it's the only way to ensure their destruction. Overkill is the name of the game. Destroyers are usually skirmishing and isolated from the main Phalanx, so unless he packs a Destroyer Lord, you can catch them outside Res Orb range.

Ionheads and Sky Rays
The amount of high strenght AP3 shots coming out of these 2 units should be enough to knock down a substantial portion of the unit leaving other units to pick off the remainder. They make good choices when dealing with a lot of destroyers.


Given the choice, I would take the Ionhead, cos it doesn't require markerlights, and it pumps out 3 shots per turn always. On the other hand (provided you can mark the Destroyer unit), the Skyray can still launch even if stunned/shaken, and the Skyray has it's own markerlights to shoot and to help other units late-game (when the seekers are all expended). They are both good units, the Ionhead requires less markerlight infrastructure though.
ii. Counter to Deployed
Shoot it. 3 railguns should be enough to take it out in 2 turns, and if not ML and swoop in with your Piranha. They can only penetrate the Monolith (need a 6) but it is worth it.


I would just stop at 'railguns'. Against Necrons I wouldn't take Piranha, they die extremely fast and their chosen target (Monolith) is practically immune to their fire. You generally only get 1 shot at taking it out, and you'll only get the penetrate 1 in 6 games. Not good odds, when that 70pts could've bought another twin-linked railgun (Broadside).
iv. Counter to Deepstrike
Taking out the monolith becomes a much higher priority at this point, the last thing you want to do is leave this sucker alone in your ranks. The Flux arc will decimate your lines and potentially take out your skimmers to boot. To prevent units from getting too close to you, a worthy sacrifice would be the piranha. Sometimes its better to give up a small unit then suffer the losses of multiple squads. Positioning the Piranha, from the left flanks, in front of the area where you expect the monolith to come down does 3 things: allows your piranha(if it survives) good range to hit back at the monolith, forces a target priority check for your other units, and prevents an assault against one squad. In your turn use markerlights to buff your Broadsides, and fire them and the Railhead at it(presuming it is alive and/or can fire). If that fails hit it with Seekers and Fusion Guns. You have to get it down. 2 turns of it in your lines will allow 2 units to come through and mess you up.


If you get units in cover/hide your Crisis well, the DS Monolith achieves very little. As I said before, Piranha are near-useless, seeker missiles are also pointless. Wait out it's barrage, then move your railguns in and kill it. definitely give all the help you can to your Broadsides, but remember that you have to shoot up other units, namely his 'Necrons' to force Phase Out. So, maybe use 1-2 markerlights to boost the Broadside teams to BS4, and then boost Crisis/launcher seekers into more dangerous targets (Destroyers, Warriors).

Just remember that many a game has been won by ignoring the Monolith completely. If it is already deployed, and a good 1-2 turns from shooting you up, kill everything else. Railguns are brutal on Destroyers (because without a Res Orb they are goners), and you can take off wounds from the Destroyer Lord.
4.b Countering the Destroyer Lord
In the event that he turbo boosts right at you turn 1, you are left little choice but to haul off with your closest units in trying to take him out. Accurate volumes of S5 weapons should put a damper on his effect next turn. At this stage unfortunately you can't do much but hope he fails his 50/50 will be back roll.


I would just hit him with seekers and Ion cannon (and any spare railgun you have). His T6 is nothing to those weapons, and his armour save is useless too. He is annoying (warscythe kills everything pretty much), but you can always feed him a Vespid squad or Gun Drones to delay his assault. Statistically, the second time you 'kill' him, he'll stay down, so just keep dropping him until the WBB fails.

5.b Countering VoD Lord
Devilfish tank shock anybody? If you have one available this tactic is great. You run a small chance of breaking the squad, leaving the lord exposed, make sure to ask if the lord has joined the squad before you do, and you also gain the benefit of putting your fish right between your warriors and the undead. Proper support of your units is important when dealing with this guy. Too often I have had a fish/unit/vehicle wiped with this tactic without a proper chance to respond. Support support support.


Countering VoD Lord is pretty simple actually. Give him a lure (BASS for example), and equip your BASS with twin-PR as their secondary (don't forget hw multi-tracker on the Team Leader). Against a Res Orb, rapid-firing PR is more effective, as you need to drop the whole unit (he'll teleport with Immortals normally). Bring in Vespid and/or Centurion 'O to finish off the unit, remember to back up as you do. Screen the BASS from assault with Kroot or Gun Drones (your Centurion should be out of assault range), and then repeat until they die permanently.
7.b Countering the Tomb Spyder in this scenario
Since the Tomb Spyder is a support unit he isn't very high on our threat factor. Luckily, S5 pulse rifles, the fact that the TS is a monstrous creature, and our Fire Warriors have great range they make an excellent counter to this unit. Wait, didn't you say to use the Fire Warriors to fire at the destroyers? Yes, I did, which after your first turn attempt at alpha strike you should focus a unit of fire warriors and/or kroot at taking out the Tomb Spyder. You do not want this guy living past the 3rd turn. The reason being as he will be able to keep those destroyers around much longer than they should. If the monolith was deployed on the table first turn, shoot the Railhead at the TS. That wound plus a little luck and you should be able to down him fairly quickly.

If it is your intent on taking on the destroyers in this scenario by knocking one whole unit down at a time, the Tomb Spyder is a HIGH priority. With only 2 wounds and T6 3+ you will need a few units to take on this guy successfully.


Yeah, Railguns and Ion cannon usually kill the Tomb Spyder easily (as do seeker missiles). Remember, if you hit the Destroyers with railgun and there is no Res Orb within 12", Tomb Spyder can't help them. Hence my suggestion to ignore the Monolith and focus railgun on Destroyers. I would save FW's for either marker support (I fail Target Lock tests all the time), or for a good old FoF on the advancing Phalanx of Warriors. I more often see Tomb Spyders accompaning the Phalanx, instead of camping with Destroyers. When it hangs around the Warriors, and lets the Lord hang with the Destroyers, it's a great combo. You are not going to waste S8+ shooting on Warriors, so they'll always be able to WBB. Even if you wipe out the entire Phalanx (congrats btw), the Tomb Spyders are still alive and let the Warriors get back up like normal.

Stealth Suits
The work horse of the Tau Empire. After infiltrating near the necron lines you should be able to whittle down the warriors through sheer volumes of fire power.


Really bad idea, for several reasons. Firstly, Stealths die in seconds to any concentration of gauss fire. Secondly, the ROF you get from Stealths is identical to the ROF on Firestorms (for the same points), but Firestorms wound more often with the MP and can engage Scarabs and put wounds on Destroyers (two very common flanking support elements). Firestorms can still shoot at 36", whereas Stealths have to close to 18" to shoot anything. Also, with the new rules for Infiltrate, those Stealths are not on the board for 1-2 turns, whereas Firestorms will be firing from Turn 1.
Kroot
The fact that the Kroot are going to go before the warriors means that assaulting them is a great idea. However 30 kroot attacks should only knock down 2 warriors in an assault and 8 warriors can do the same so remember to assault weakened units and do not charge into an assault outnumbered and expect to win.


This tactic is central to my Anti-Phalanx concept. I wouldn't charge in lone squads of Kroot, usually you need 2-1 ratio of squads to achieve victory. It goes without saying that you have to shoot up the Warriors first.

Sniper Drones
The Low AP of the rail rifle with the ability to stand out in the open and not suffer return fire, make these guys great choices if you are going to see a lot immortals.


Sniper drones don't hit often enough, and in any case Immortals are going to be teleporting with a ROVOD Lord.

Crisis Suits
The "must knock them down now" unit. Helios configuration makes sense with the Low AP weaponry but FireKnife and Bladestorm will be your best configurations when taking them on due to the high strength and number of shots from the unit.


Helios are a death-wish. I would actually use Vespid, BASS twin-PR and Ion cannon. Railguns are probably going to be busy shooting other things, PR on regular Crisis is too pricy and inaccurate, FB is totally useless. Firestorm will drop a few, as will massed S5 shooting.
Strike hard, strike fast.

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Re: Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

Post#10 » Jul 22 2008 04:08

Taipan thanks for you comments
Some of them are 5th inspired and some aren't
That being said i plan on revising and finishing this after I've had some experience with 5th edition.

Also, please keep in mind a lot of the descriptions were under the pretense you had the benefit of knowing what your opponent was going to bring or their tendencies to bring. It wasn't intended to be a guide to say always have this unit in your list. Some of those units I've mentioned I never run for reasons you've pointed out.

I do however disagree with you on your comments about scarabs. yes they are a tarpit... but do you really want your crisis suits or your broadsides bogged down in a tarpit? My tactics are common aggressive tactics to counter a lot of necron players that run scarabs to tie up valuable units.
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Re: Anti-Necron Tactica Guide

Post#11 » Jul 23 2008 09:12

Also, please keep in mind a lot of the descriptions were under the pretense you had the benefit of knowing what your opponent was going to bring or their tendencies to bring. It wasn't intended to be a guide to say always have this unit in your list. Some of those units I've mentioned I never run for reasons you've pointed out.


Well, the thing is, in a tourney or if you are playing someone for the first time, it's going to be difficult to predict what units they will bring. Necrons are one of the easiest armies to plan for, and even they have enough variety to make 'take-all-comers' strategies a headache to formulate. Generally, there are three Necron armies;

Inescapable as death; Phalanx formation, lots of Warriors, 1-2 Monoliths, handful of support units (usually Immortals and/or Destroyers).

Destroying you all day; 9 x Destroyers, Destroyer Lord, teleporting Lord with Immortal bodyguard. Still a fair few Warriors (2-3 medium sized squads), and a Monolith will appear sometimes. Kinda dies in 5th Edition, with the need for Troop units.

Wraith-wing; Bizzare but throws people. Spams Wraiths, Destroyer Lord rides shotgun. Token Warrior squads, sometimes some Flayed Ones.

I do however disagree with you on your comments about scarabs. yes they are a tarpit... but do you really want your crisis suits or your broadsides bogged down in a tarpit? My tactics are common aggressive tactics to counter a lot of necron players that run scarabs to tie up valuable units.


What are we in disagreement about? I recognise they are a threat, but they place a handicap on the Necron player and are laughably easy to kill. You'll see them coming, and it's always 3-5 less Destroyers he can field. MP does it most days, submunition if they refuse to die (don't forget to use markerlights to drop their 3+ cover save when they turbo-boost). Even your FW's can snipe them to death.
Strike hard, strike fast.

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