Need some tyranid help

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skavenfreak
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Need some tyranid help

Post#1 » Feb 06 2008 12:17

Hello everybody, This is my first time posting on this forum, and yes I did search for topics of similar subject before posting. The question I have is A friend of mine has a tyranid army That I have never played before, and am hoping to beat. It consists of:
infiltrating broodlord plus retinue, Lictor, 9warriors, somewhere around 50 hormagaunts and maybe 10 termagaunts. The broodlord and lictor are what worry me because they can reach my lines with their accursed infiltrate ability. And another question; what can I do about his 24inch assault hormagaunts?

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Fio'O T
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Post#2 » Feb 06 2008 12:46

Well the ultimate peice of advice I can think of is to use submunitions from the Hammerhead Railgun. Pretty much everything Tyranid players can field (besides carnifexs, Hive Tyrants and Zoanthropes) has a 4+ save or worse.
My advice... don't take advice from me...

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Enkou
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Post#3 » Feb 06 2008 12:52

Theres a few ways you can combat that type of nid army.

1. The lictor isn't really a problem, just keep your troops away from the cover its in (he wont risk moving a lictor out in the open - So yes you lose a cover bonus, but it also saves your troops from its nastyness (with that said, i've not been up against a lictor before, I just know if you stay away from them, they're generally harmless - no shooting)

2. As you should quite rightly fear, the broodlord and and genestealers are your biggest threat early on in the game, but he cant setup within 18" of you if place your models carefully, for example, by placing a fire warrior team in a building, that stops him infiltrating his broody, in or behind that building. For a HQ he's actually got quite a poor armour save, so simply firing an entire squad of firewarriors in rapid fire range should cause enough wounding hits for him to fail at least a few of them. If you're really lucky, he wont upgrade his genestealers with that +1sv, meaning the majority armour save will be 5. And what AP is a standard tau fire warrior gun? AP5 ! you're instant killing them! - Make sure you totally wipe this squad out, don’t even leave 1 alive, they are killing machines and will eat you for breakfast.

3. After those pesky genestealers are dealt with, I would put all your fire power on his warriors and eradicate them for the board. He'll probably upgrade them to be AP4 and you cant instant kill them thanks to the synapse rule, but missile pods, plasma rifles will instantly remove wounds. Pusle rifles have the strength for you to inflict wounds on a 3+ so also fire them at the warriors (force lots of armour saves which they will fail)

4. So now your problem is that 50 odd hormagaunts, but the beauty about taking off his warriors and his broodlord is, he now has no synapse creatures on the board. So those 50 hormagaunts are now Ld5 with a 5+ armour save, kill 10 of them to force a moral check, and what do you know, he'll fail it, and he'll start running off the board. Leaving poor lictor on his own

setup

This is gonna be tricky, he'll deploy 12" into the board. If you deploy as far back as you can, he'll have to move at least 33" to get into combat with you. Be careful of this though, if he causes enough wounds on your fire warriors or crisis suit team, to force a moral check and you fail it, that unit will run off the board, reducing your firepower (which is what you need to reply on)

There's also two ways of setting up. Either put everything in a corner and make them run to you, thus increasing the distance he has to move to get to ya. Or split your army up into 2 smaller armies, He'll be force to do the same, the advantage of this is, he'll have to do the same thus making it easier to kill the units coming towards you (less of them) or he'll just go around in a mob, so yeah, your fire power wont be enough to stop him, but you'll do some damage, and you still have half your army free from combat and on the other side of the board

Make full use of terrain, if there’s some buildings on his side or in the middle, that’s a difficult terrain test, he'll generally get 3-4's which again will slow down his advance, (but give him an annoying cover save) so pop your army opposite this building (if its on his side, so on the first turn he'll have to roll those test to be able to move)

overview
Simply nids are tau's most fear enemy due to their speed and close combat powers. Hopefully the advice I've given you will give you a fighting chance to take him out before he gets to you. Remember though, if you know you're gonna get assaulted, move those fire warriors into rapid fire range, you get double the shots and you might just wipe that unit out, even if you don’t, you'll have taken out a nice number of them (either way that unit is gonna die, might as well do something for the greater good eh xD?)
:: Repent, for tomorrow you die ::

skavenfreak
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Post#4 » Feb 06 2008 02:55

Thanks for all your responses! @Enkou, Im guessing you want me to post my army list? If so I don't have much at the moment but I did just purchase a large lot off of bartertown, maybe you could pick apart my model selection and find what would be effective. But anyways my model list is as follows:
HQ command suit,all bits
Troops 24 FW, all bits
Troops 12 kroot 4hounds 1shaper
Troops 2 Dfish, all bits
fast attack 11 pathfinders, 3 railrifles
fast attack 12 gundrones
elites 6 crisis suits all bits
elites 3 stealth suits all bits
Hsupport 3 broadsides

And I have tons of guardsmen to use as auxillarys(if that is still legal)

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Enkou
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Post#5 » Feb 06 2008 03:46

Let see, you have a nice selection of units there, how many points is the nid army? (as its only fair you both play to a certain point limit)

but generally I'd go for this;

HQ
Shas'o Fireknife: Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod + multitracker

elite

3xelite (either as 1 squad or all together) Fireknife: Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod + multitracker

Troops
2 lots of 12xfire warriors+devilfish *1 [url]http://www.advancedtautactica.com/academy/FoF.html
please please read this, its an extremely good tactic to use

if you have room points wise add in the kroot squad as they can delay those 50 hormagaunts whilst you move into a better position

Fast
8 path finders, 3 of which have railrifles (you can only take 8 max, and they MUST have a devilfish transport or you cant use them


the broadsides are kinda useless, but if you have any extra points free go for a broadside (you can instantly take a wound off a broodlord or a warrior.

*1 Give your devilfish the Flechette Discharger, and hope he charges any of his nids at your tank (specially the hormagaunts as the reaction you'll get from him will be priceless) hormagaunts cant hurt the tank, but he might use it as a stepping stone. If/when he does remember "Any model assaulting a vehicle with Flechette Discharger, takes a hit, on a roll of a 4+ on a 6D that model must take an armour save or lose a wound" So lets say he manages to get 20 of his hormagaunts in combat with the take, thats 20 dice you get to roll, with 50:50 odds of getting a 4+ at least 10 will be needing to make armour saves, and with hormagaunts horrible armour save, theres gonna be a lot of nid bits around your tanks ;)

What you want to do for all of them is this;

1.HQ and Elite and Fire warroirs are gonna be firing at the broodlord+friends until their all gone.

2. the kroot are gonna sit back, just outside the range of his hormagaunts, so when/if they do charge you, you'll use your kroot as a shield, jump in your devilfish and stay there, or move anyway (I'll explain later)

3. once Broody+friends are dead, you want to use the HQ, Elites, Troops and railrifle pathfinders to quickly take down his warriors. you can technically take down 15 instant wounds off the warrior squad in one turn from your HQ , Elites and railrifles (providing the all hit and all wound - use your markerlights to help you achieve this) then your fire warriors can hopefully take off any reminding wound/models

4. Hopefully by now, he has no Genestealers no broodlord and no warriors left, you can concentrate your armies fire power on the hormagaunts gaunts, until they run away

5. If for some reason Mr lictor is being a thorn in your side, after the genestealers, broody and warriors are gone, deal with it with your HQ and Elites


Thats just a rough game plan and rough unit setup on how I would fight that army, it does all depends if you get first turn and your fire power holds out. If your shooting fails, he's literally gonna eat you by turn 3 and you'll be dead. If your shooting works, then you'll be victorious with maybe one or two deaths.

But remember ! its all fun and games, so remember to shake hands after you finish, and give them some playful bander, about how it was all for the greater good =D
:: Repent, for tomorrow you die ::

skavenfreak
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Post#6 » Feb 06 2008 09:50

I guess I should clarify what I wrote, The list of models I have up is Just what I have at my disposal, not an army. I am just getting into tau because... well, space marines are kinda easy to play. I Played with vanilla marines for about a year and wanted a change, so 100$ later I end up with all these tau models! very good deal.

forgot to mention, playing anywhere from 750 to 1000 points.

The Halfrican
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Post#7 » Feb 07 2008 03:33

Tyranids are probably the easiest army for the Tau to fight (imho) mount shots. lots of them fire warriors are your friend in addition to the sub munitions on the hammerheads (not only are they skimmers and harder to hit in H2H but they are highly mobile and can maneuver to buildings to be out of reach completely. keep in mind he has a 24" assault essentially and deploy accordingly. back up as far as you can and just dump hell on him. Use the higher ap shots to handle his larger creatures. SS's look good but the range on their gun puts them in range for being assaulted for his faster creatures. Just mount your skimmers and fire warriors to handle the bulk of his army. As for the infiltrating.. hehehe use yours to force him to infiltrate where you want him to. Kroot make effective nuisance engines, field descent shots and have mediocre H2H ability. Infiltrate small (10) model kroot squads in places that prevent him from infiltrating near you. if they assault the kroot you might just take a few of them with you. if not they'll be left wide open to be shot up by the rest of your army.
In Tau I am strong.

kirstar
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Post#8 » Feb 07 2008 03:42

I would say skimmers are your friends. Sskimmers with decoy and flechette launchers are your life long companion who will be your best man whn you marry.

Also lots and lots of shots. Use burst canon on you hammerheads rather than gun drones or sms. Use BC piranhas not FB. I use firestorm suit for my XV's BC + MP.

One thing I don't take it lots of troops. A nid player will usually buy extended carapace so they get a save. Also troops are askingto be assaulted. With your 2 troop choices don't bother buying photon grenades. They barely make a difference.

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Panhead
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Post#9 » Feb 07 2008 04:08

As a nid player who brings all these units to the table, I'll add a bit of insight

Enkou wrote:
1. The lictor isn't really a problem, just keep your troops away from the cover its in (he wont risk moving a lictor out in the open - So yes you lose a cover bonus, but it also saves your troops from its nastyness (with that said, I've not been up against a lictor before, I just know if you stay away from them, they're generally harmless - no shooting)


One lictor isn't a any worry. It's main function will be most likely to tie up a JsJ'ing squad. Since it hit's on 3's, and has strength 6, it could take a small crisis team on it's own. Were there three, it could be a big problem, as they all appear at the same time, also making you deploy further from cover than you'd like.

2. As you should quite rightly fear, the broodlord and and genestealers are your biggest threat early on in the game, but he cant setup within 18" of you if place your models carefully, for example, by placing a fire warrior team in a building, that stops him infiltrating his broody, in or behind that building. For a HQ he's actually got quite a poor armour save, so simply firing an entire squad of firewarriors in rapid fire range should cause enough wounding hits for him to fail at least a few of them. If you're really lucky, he wont upgrade his genestealers with that +1sv, meaning the majority armour save will be 5. And what AP is a standard tau fire warrior gun? AP5 ! you're instant killing them! - Make sure you totally wipe this squad out, don’t even leave 1 alive, they are killing machines and will eat you for breakfast.


For the most part, the broodlord is in my army to eat the fire of the entire army for two turns. Infiltrate him as close as possible (normally in/behind terain), and keep him in cover. Everyone targets him first, and it's a fairly durable unit. Also, if he survives, you have the synapse bubble right by the enemy for your quick moving hormagaunts.

3. After those pesky genestealers are dealt with, I would put all your fire power on his warriors and eradicate them for the board. He'll probably upgrade them to be AP4 and you cant instant kill them thanks to the synapse rule, but missile pods, plasma rifles will instantly remove wounds. Pusle rifles have the strength for you to inflict wounds on a 3+ so also fire them at the warriors (force lots of armor saves which they will fail)


Since warriors are so slow, he should be careful to keep them as far out of LoS as he can. You won't get a lot of opportunity to target them, unless he floods you with targets (but then he should be close enough with some units to assault)

4. So now your problem is that 50 odd hormagaunts, but the beauty about taking off his warriors and his broodlord is, he now has no synapse creatures on the board. So those 50 hormagaunts are now Ld5 with a 5+ armour save, kill 10 of them to force a moral check, and what do you know, he'll fail it, and he'll start running off the board. Leaving poor lictor on his own



the hormagaunts will most likely just run forward from the get-go, and any unit they touch will disintegrate. Since they have both fleet AND leaping, I'd suggest taking any opportunity to kill them. Since my list is a bit more genestealer heavy, the hormagaunts either die to a man, or are ignored, and chew through half of an army.

Make full use of terrain, if there’s some buildings on his side or in the middle, that’s a difficult terrain test, he'll generally get 3-4's which again will slow down his advance, (but give him an annoying cover save) so pop your army opposite this building (if its on his side, so on the first turn he'll have to roll those test to be able to move)


With three dice instead of the normal two, I tend to roll 5's-6's on my terrain tests, having the terrain slowing down nids is a very rare occurance.

As for the infiltrating.. hehehe use yours to force him to infiltrate where you want him to


I'd suggest doing this as well. Nothing is more frustrating than having the broodlord not do his job (of eating shots at close range...)

Suggestions from me would be to ignore slow things like warriors, and focus on the broodlord and gaunts. Leaving the gaunts alone would be a really bad mistake, since they are the most agile unit in the army. A lictor could be a threat, but since it's only one, I wouldn't worry about it (keep tanks closer to terrain than troops, the 6's to hit really hurt the lictor, who is a better support unit. Against tau, everything hits on 3's anyways.. so there isn't a huge impact)

Cadeous
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Post#10 » Feb 07 2008 04:54

I like the list above, but i would rather give the crisis suits burst cannons in stead of plasma rifles. The Plasma rifles only let you move and fire within 12". Taking BC's would give you an extra shot and your full movement.

I would also drop the pathfinders to take a pirana. This will give you enough points to get SMS and TL on your Fishes. IMHO the extra BC shots will be more useful than pathfinders, but that is only if you want to get more models.

I agree that Stealths are a bit of a point sinc in this senario. Their stealth fields only are affective against shooters, not assaulting bugs. I would also replace the Plasma Rifle on the Comander with an Air-Burster so you can start droping large numbers in one shot.
The smell of victory is thick in the air tonight.

skavenfreak
Shas
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Post#11 » Feb 11 2008 12:12

hey, Im back! I still have not found time to squeeze in a game unfortunatley. But...Ive found out some more about what he might be fielding, Consists of about 40 hormaguants(not 50) 9winged warriors, broody and pals, lictor or some termagaunts. The game will be on the 1000 point level with about 25% terrain. What do you guys think of my somewhat of an idea list?(keep in mind totals arent exact, I cant find my codex)
Shas el 90ish?
missle pod
Hw ????+1BS
plasma rifle

Elite
3xv8 50 each
burstcannon
misslepod
multitracker

Elite same as above

Troops 125
12FCW
bonded

Troops 125
12fcw
bonded

Troops
10 kroot carnivores

that leaves me with maybe 300 or so points left over, and Id really like it if you could make some suggestions for me. You can look at one of my earlier posts to see what I have at my disposel.
Thanks for everything so far!

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LiquidWulfe
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Post#12 » Feb 11 2008 01:10

When facing nids, NEVER leave home without your AFP :P

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JoshoW
Shas
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Re: Need some tyranid help

Post#13 » Jul 18 2008 04:11

I've played nids a thousand times. I can tell you right now, from experience, the weakest thing about his army is the lack of synapse. The infiltration remains a problem, but XV8's acute senses should keep it away long enough for phase 2.

Kill the broolord and warriors. I don't care where he is, but with out him, the army will either run or be pinned and cut down. Use sniper drones, seeing as you seem to like the Kauyon technique.

With the synapses dead, turn you snipers on the horde. Without synapse, nids are dumb and cowardly.
If they get pinned (At Ld 5, don't be surprised) they will be eliminated before they even get to make it to you firing line. Instant victory!

Missile pod, plasma rifles and rail rifles are all excellent warrior killers. *EDIT* Sorry, I was wrong last time, you cannot land instant death on synapse creatures.
Last edited by JoshoW on Jul 19 2008 05:29, edited 1 time in total.
We have learned a lesson from Mont'ka

Absintheminded
Shas
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Re: Need some tyranid help

Post#14 » Jul 18 2008 05:57

JoshoW wrote:I've played nids a thousand times. I can tell you right now, from experience, the weakest thing about his army is the lack of synapse. The infiltration remains a problem, but XV8's acute senses should keep it away long enough fof phase 2.

Kill the broolord and warriors. I don't care where he is, but with out him, the army will either run or be pinned and cut down. Use sniper drones, seeing as you seem to like the Kauyon technique.

With the brood lord dead, turn you snipers on the horde. Without synapse, nids are dumb and cowardly.
If they get pinned (At Ld 5, don't be surprised) they will be eliminated before they even get to make it to you firing line. Instant victory!

Missile pod, plasma rifles and rail rifles are all excellent warrior killers. Seeker missiles will get instant death on them.


In the presence of synapse creatures, they're immune to instant death, so wouldn't warriors always be immune?
Tau Physician: Patient Hunter

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Taipan
Shas'Ui
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Re: Need some tyranid help

Post#15 » Aug 26 2008 01:30

Consists of about 40 hormaguants(not 50) 9winged warriors, broody and pals, lictor or some termagaunts.


No Tyrants or Carnifex. Meh, power to you then...

Broodlord+friends; There are two ways he'll use them. Most likely, he'll Outlfank with them and try to attack you from the side or rear. Quite simply, shoot the hell out of them. Cover saves mean it's all about shots downrange; Firestorm battesuits, Stealths, FW's etc. Just hose them down with pulse fire. If you need to distract them for a turn, charge with Kroot or Drones.

Winged Warriors; Are they shooty or assaulty? In either case, hose them down with pulse fire, missile pods etc. Don't shoot railgun or anything high-end into them, treat them like Ork Nobz.

Lictor; Annoying, but he'll die in short order once revealed.

Termagaunts; Hose them down with pulse fire. Ignore them until you've eliminated his Warriors and Broodlord; with his main assault broods and Synapse dead, the remaining Gaunts will be easy to eliminate.

Key Tau units;

Shas'O, CIB, MP, SG, Stims, hw multi
(137 points)

He chucks out a lot of shots, is pretty resistant to any return fire. You can drop the Shield Generator if you wish, but I'd leave it on in case he brings some Zoanthropes.

3 x XV8, BC, MP, MT
(150 points)

Most of his units will die in short order to fire from this unit. You can out-range his assault range (keep away from the table edge to avoid the Broodlord), and you'll kill his infantry pretty quickly. The Warriors will also hate this unit. Shield drones are unecessary, because if you get caught in combat they can't help, and Tyranids don't have much in the way of AP3-. Hug terrain, JSJ his broods and you'll be laughing.

Shas'vre, twin-MP, AFP, hw multi
(78 points)

He's cheap and can even be attached to your HQ as a BG if you need the additional Elite slot for another Firestorm team. The twin-MP keeps him hurting the Warriors and Gaunts, and the AFP cuts through his big broods quite effectively. Drop the AFP on a brood, then clean it up with the Firestorms.

12 x FW's, pulse rifles
Devilfish, BC, DP, DL
(210 points)

Not too expensive, great mobility, and you'll cut his Gaunts to pieces. Don't forget to detach the Drones to block his assaults (they have to assault the drones before they can assault the FW's). Also, once Synapse is gone you can reliably pin his Gaunts with their twin-carbines.

10 x Kroot, kroot rifles
(70 points)

Cheap, can counter-Outflank, and their rifles are pretty decent for whittling down Gaunt broods. Infiltrate forward to block assault routes, then just skirmish with his first wave.

Heavy Support;

Railhead, two BC's, MT, DP
(165 points)

You probably need at least two of these, in order to wipe out his broods.

A good basic list for 1,500 points;

HQ;

Shas'O, CIB, MP, MT, Stims
(137 points)

Shas'El, twin-MP, AFP, hw multi
(93 points)

Elite;

(3) 2 x XV8, BC, MP, MT
(100 points each)

Troops;

(2) 12 x FW's, Devilfish, DP, DL
(210 points each)

(3) 10 x Kroot
(70 points each)

Heavy Support;

(2) Railhead, two BC's, MT, DP, DL
(170 points)

Total; 1,500 points

The two HQ suits are long-range and accurate fire support, the regular suits are easy to hide when JSJ and cheap, the FW's are fast moving and wipe the objectives clean of Gaunts, while the Kroot Infiltrate onto the objectives and delay assaults. Railheads round it out by laying down submunition rounds and laying down S5 dakka with the BC's.
Strike hard, strike fast.

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