[Tactica] Chaos Daemons

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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Orange-Bell
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[Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#1 » May 05 2008 07:36

So I thought I'd get the ball rolling on dealing with the newest kid on the 40k block.

With 5th ed just around the corner, and with the army just being released, I thought it might be good to become familiar with the overall feeling of the army, even if it isn't in depth. After all, several parts of the Daemon list will be affected deeply by the new ed (rending and deepstriking, just off the top of my head), and no-one will have much experience playing against the yet.

That can come later. And I should say that I welcome anyone's input into this, should they know something about the new list, especially real game experience. This isn't so much Theoryhammer, just an attempt to get people familiar with something new before they face it on the tabletop.

Daemonic Assault

So this is the funkiest thing with the Daemons. Nothing starts on the table. Ever. They choose their army, then break into two even halves (not points, but units). They choose one half, and if the dice roll is good, that half deepstrikes in the first turn. Dice bad, and it's the other half. So Daemon armies will likely have a lot of redundancy, with players choosing two of most things so that no matter what happens, there'll be good stuff in the first half. The rest of the army comes in, unit-by-unit, as deepstriking reserves do normally. In a nutshell, half will be there in their first turn, and the other half will trickle in.

So they scatter as normal when they come in, unless they choose to come in near a icon, in which case they don't scatter at all.

So with this in mind:
--Make sure your opponent doesn't try to use the icon for a unit arriving the same turn the icon itself arrives. The icon had to have been there the turn before.
--As much as is practical, stay up close to the back of the board and spread out, so they have to land in front or to the side, not behind or in between.
--Bring template and blast weapons where possible, those deepstriking devils will be close together.
--You'll have free range of the board during set-up, so infiltrating Kroot or Stealths in far away places might help if he has to go chasing after something in the corner.
--Going second has its advantages, at least you'll have something to shoot at, even if your skimmers aren't moving first.
--For a bit of fun, leave a tiny gap between or behind units to tempt an aggressive player. If they go for it and scatter off the table or into one of your units, you've had a little victory without firing a shot. If not... well... it just makes it that more exciting.
--Need I say shoot the (no pun intended) hell out anything that lands close by?

Daemonic Shooting


It ain't exactly their forte. They have some short ranged stuff (even a short-ranged railgun!), but not a lot of it. And it's generally either high or low strength, so skimmer are actually very handy, as most of their reliable anti-tank is in the form of Monstrous Creatures. So the fact of the matter is that Daemons will try to assault, especially against the Tau, whenever they can.

It is worth noting that Slaanesh beasts have access to a watered down version of the Lash of Submission, which makes them a target. The special character The Masque can even cast it three times (not on the same unit more than once, though).

This also brings up the point that Daemons aren't psykers. Daemons never have to take psychic tests or anything of the sort. All of their shooting abilities, with the exception of the Soulgrinder, look like psychic abilities, but are in fact just shooting abilities, requiring a roll to hit based on ballistic skill. So don't try to pick up your opponent on that, because it isn't there. I guess in a way Daemons are psychic powers in themselves, and don't need to keep rolling in order to keep themselves in existence.



So that's a quick run-down, more to come, and i'm interested in what other people have noticed so far.
O-B

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#2 » May 05 2008 07:46

Nice write up O-B
I'm looking forward to getting a game in against a Daemon army ASAP
B)
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#3 » May 05 2008 04:30

Ive had a bit of a go at them and in all honesty, good fire control is the name of the game. daemons are quite susceptible to concentrated firepower when they deep strike... and you "only" have to worry about half of them before the others get too close...

pretty much all the Daemons are crack assault units... so essentially they are overkill against tau... what this means for you, is they have more ability on the board than they need to kill you in combat (which means that they basically waste points to kill you!)

its important to keep a good deal of mobility so that you can manouvre to targets to wipe out (and run away from targets that you know you cant kill off)... and thats the thing, you HAVE to make sure that you kill off all the daemons... because even just one khorne beserker can cause havoc!

its no real surprise, given the new availability of models, that you will likely be dealing with mainly khorne and slaaneshi daemons most commonly... both of these are excellent in combat, but in slightly different ways. either way, they are still very susceptible to even basic pulse weaponry. use it well.
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#4 » May 05 2008 04:48

The Masque has that ability which is the equivalent to Lash of Submission, and she/it can use this three times every turn in her shooting phase. The Greater Daemons are just totally lethal; access to Lord knows how many daemonic abilities and nightmarish stats as well. Soulgrinder is a Predator tank with better armour and better combat ability! It has access to three different types of shooty stuff from its gun, each of which is not good news. You can take three of these guys, with all the shooting options - that is seriously scary.

I was permitted to work out a 1500pt army list for a Slaanesh-specific army two weeks ago. I took a Keeper of Secrets with all upgrades available, 2 Heralds including the Masque (only one of these guys allowed), 24 Daemonettes with upgraded abilities (don't ask me what they were, I can't read my writing here!), one Soulgrinder, 10 Seekers and 5 Fiends. That comes in at 43 models for just over 1500pts. Not many, but from what I recall, the daemonic powers easily made up for that. I do remember that the Daemonettes have Rending, but I can't recall if that had to be purchased or not - I believe not.

As oink said though - the armour save is not brilliant so get your Pulse Rifles cleaned out and your DF engines a-revving, guys!

E.

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#5 » May 09 2008 03:27

All is nice and dandy, but all this will change in short time. You can have as many deamonettes and bloodletter as you want if they come in piecemeal and are isolated and subject to massed firepower. What you have to fear are the plaguebearers. Every Daemon army will contain at least 2 untis of them. They are the best choice for first turn DS. Why you ask? T5, 5+ invulnerable save and Feel no Pain. No, not T4/5. You read it right, T5 with Feel no Pain. So they get a 5+/4+ save against anything short of a solid rail shot... against which they still have a 5+ invulnerable save. Scary isn't it?
This will be the anchor of the army (probably put forward).
Then all the funky stuff (Bloodletters and Daemonettes) can come in and cause havoc.

And also Soulgrinders look scary and good on paper, but probably they will be exchanged with Daemon Princes in no time. SGs are the only vehicle in the army, which is especialy against tau a stupid move. Prime targets of the Railguns. And a SG has only a BS of 3 and can fire only 1 shot a turn. Fearsome CC ability, but they have to get there... and 150+ points for something that has a 50% chance of hitting?

Skimmers will be the bane of the new daemons. And massed firepower.

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#6 » May 14 2008 12:32

Luckily, plaguebearers also have Slow & Purposeful, meaning that, especially with skimmers and suits, you'll have no trouble at all on avoiding them. They have no ranged weapons either, meaning that they'll most likely end up accomplishing nothing on a standard game.

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#7 » May 19 2008 05:07

Anasa wrote:Luckily, plaguebearers also have Slow & Purposeful, meaning that, especially with skimmers and suits, you'll have no trouble at all on avoiding them. They have no ranged weapons either, meaning that they'll most likely end up accomplishing nothing on a standard game.



other than, of course, being a scoring unit that is a nightmare to budge!
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#8 » May 20 2008 11:05

I played a 1700 point game against demons yesterday and.. well.. I slaughtered them.. I lost 16 fire warriors and a sniper drone squadron by the end of the game and he had a wounded bloodthirster on the board edge left at the end of turn 5 when he forfit.

Noteable units.. The Mask. She ended up coming with the first half of his army as he wanted and deployed on turn one. She did her lash thing moving a fire warrior unit towards her (after deciding to not walk them behind the woods they were in). So they stepped ouf of the woods. She made another fire warrior unit in the same woods walk out the side so the marker light in it couldnt draw LoS to her.

The Mask is not an independant character, but instead a unit. What this means: She can't join units and you can target her with shooting without restriction. Because he couldn't charge anyhow.. the mini-lashes she had had no effect.

His army list was entirely Slannesh and Khorne Demons.

Slannesh Demons never saw combat, every squad was wiped out before it was able to move. St5 on T3 isn't hard to kill

The Soulgrinder being his only effective anti tank attempted to deep strike to the side of my hammerhead on turn 1 and scattered off the board so I'm not sure of it's effectiveness.

The Khorne Demons faired a bit better but each unit was reduced to 3 men after deep striking with a mix of submunitions and other firepower. They did get into combat and with a mix of my failing leadership and them being killing machines I lost a couple units to 3 blood letters and the skull taker.

Fragmentation Projector is great!!! Especially against Demonettes! Everything deepstrikes tight togeather so every time I fired a large template I was hitting 10 models.

Skulltaker

Lethal in combat.. if he gets there... He did help the blood letters kill a fire warrior unit but after that he died to crisis suits shooting him from outside his assualt range... he's simply not fast enough to catch anything but stationary fire warriors and he's not any harder to kill than a space marine character with shooting.



I was worried at first when I heard about demons but I can say this.. against Tau. Khorne and Slannesh don't stand a chance. Now that being said.. I do realize that Nurgle with their feel no pain rolls WILL be a lot harder to kill! They will be a VERY hard army to face unless you can move much faster than them.

Tzeench will also be harder as they all have shooting attacks... and they are good shooting attacks that they can use on the turn they deepstrike..

Personally.. I feel that a mixed Tzeentch Nurgle list will be the most powerful demon army, however since the Khorne and Slannesh Demons are cheap and plastic they will be the most common.

The biggest weakness of the demon army is long ranged anti tank, and against skimmers their close range anti tank isn't great either. If they do get to combat with you, expect to lost a unit so make sure they aren't in a position to consolidate into another unit. The key is really just moving faster than them. Anything with a template is great and because of the close proximity of demons.. flamers will be a very effective weapon.

Sadly... I don't doubt that Tau are better against demons than Demon Hunters are.

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#9 » May 20 2008 11:25

Interesting to hear some battle reports, and not surprising to see them doing badly.

I think the Masque will be almost useless aside from the turn she appears, not being able to join a unit makes her/it extremely vulnerable.

However, I think this army is designed with 5th ed in mind. Though rending is toned down, supposedly being able to run after deep-striking will make Daemons far less vulnerable to blast and template weapons after landing. They'll have a chance to spread out. Also, I think CD players will learn quickly not to deepstrike to close to anything. I think most will try to deepstrike behind cover before moving closer, and those in reserve will come in closer next to icons, and use 'Run' to allow them to get closer quickly.

I think also the fact that most are playing with the plastic models is making it difficult, I agree that you need a good chunk of Nurgle and Tzeentch to do well. Don't forget that every unit of horrors and flamers can have a s8 bolt, and that they will do an awful lot of damage with flamers with winds of chaos.
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#10 » May 20 2008 12:02

Orange-Bell wrote:Interesting to hear some battle reports, and not surprising to see them doing badly.

I think the Masque will be almost useless aside from the turn she appears, not being able to join a unit makes her/it extremely vulnerable.

However, I think this army is designed with 5th ed in mind. Though rending is toned down, supposedly being able to run after deep-striking will make Daemons far less vulnerable to blast and template weapons after landing. They'll have a chance to spread out. Also, I think CD players will learn quickly not to deepstrike to close to anything. I think most will try to deepstrike behind cover before moving closer, and those in reserve will come in closer next to icons, and use 'Run' to allow them to get closer quickly.

I think also the fact that most are playing with the plastic models is making it difficult, I agree that you need a good chunk of Nurgle and Tzeentch to do well. Don't forget that every unit of horrors and flamers can have a s8 bolt, and that they will do an awful lot of damage with flamers with winds of chaos.


Indeed. The way the army plays is very contrary to it's deployment. It's an all out straight for the enemy however deploying in a position to set you up for this is something of a folley. The demon army will no doubt get better with the ability to run but it's still going to be an issue of deployment.

The demon player has two choices when deploying... focus all the demons in one area of the board and risk getting stranded far from objectives and being outmanuevered by a faster enemy. Or spread out the army so that it can have units in all parts of the board and near all objectives, but making it easier to isolate and pick off specific units.

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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#11 » May 22 2008 07:06

I heard some interesting 5th ed rumours about close combat and vehicles, those being that you always go against rear armour, and that how hard the vehicle is to hit is dependent on how fast you go--just being a skimmer no longer makes it a 6 to-hit automatically.

So with that, Screamers could be problematic for tanks... very fast (can turbo-boost into a good position), able to hit on 4s most of the time, and hitting armour 10 with melta bombs. Ouch.
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#12 » Jun 15 2008 03:53

Just thought I might weigh in here, with my thoughts on the new codex, and how to counter with our own units.

HQ:

Skarband, The Exiled One: Stronger Bloodthirster, Instrument of Chaos and Breath of Chaos (Winds of Chaos). He loses his wings, but gains Fleet.

Now, this guy is not too slow, but he's not quite as fast as a normal Bloodthirster. Unless he rolls really high for his Fleet move, he can't catch our suits or skimmers. For killing him, I would recommend three weapons; the plasma rifle, ion cannon and cyclic ion blaster. A PR+CIB combo will chew through his wounds, as any wounds you cause with the CIB will punch through the Iron Hide, and the PR will wound him reliably. Ion cannon can always out-range him, and has a high enough ROF to break the invul save. If you can get enough markerlights onto him, a Skyray will chip away wounds too (using seeker missiles). Don't get too close though, he has an AP2 flamer and is nasty in close-combat.

Ku'Gath, the Plaguefather: So he's basically a Great Unclean One, Breath of Chaos (same as Winds of Chaos), Aura of Decay and Cloud of Flies. However, there are two important rules which he has. The first is Necrotic Missiles; he chucks Nurglings at the enemy, dropping a pie plate that wounds anything on a 4+. The other rule is Nurgling Infestation; this allows Ku'Gath (provided he has been on the table for 1 turn) to summon a base of Nurglings that arrive via DS close to Ku'Gath.

Ku'Gath is a real problem for Tau under 4th Ed, due to FNP. However, with AP1/2 negating it in 5th Ed, it becomes easier. Massing PR, railgun solid shot and FB into him will chip away his wounds, but it will take concentrated fire to do so. Try hitting him with multiple Broadside teams and Helios suits at close-range. Pile on the AP1/2 and his invul save will break. He has six wounds though, so consider what else you could shoot, if he's not in range to shower you in Nurglings.

Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch: A winged though inferior Daemon Prince. On the other hand, a superior invul save, can shoot two different powers at two different units (Master of Sorcery and We are Legion), and he has all the shooting powers. He has 1 unique rule; Oracle of Eternity. Friendly units near him can re-roll any and all saves. On the flipside, for every unsaved wound Fateweaver takes, he has to make a Leadership test or he is removed.

Against Fateweaver, MP and ion cannon are highly effective. Likewise, massed pulse firepower and SMS are also quite efficient. He'll absorb a lot of fire, but all it takes is 1 unsaved wound and a failed Ld test, and he runs. Force that test with massed fire; Ionheads, Deathrains, Firestorms etc. A FoF will cause 1-2 unsaved wounds (not including the Devilfish's firepower), cause another unsaved wound with support shooting and he's likely to either die or fall back.

Generic Greater Daemons (going in order of cost):

Great Unclean One: Slow, can only get Breath of Chaos to shoot with, but has FNP and a bunch of wounds. Treat him like Ku'Gath, get AP2/1 into him en-masse.

Keeper of Secrets: Slightly faster with Fleet, Gifts let her force a model to lose an Attack, Hit and Run, move them around (Pavane, like Lash of Submission) and have defensive+offensive grenades. She can get Daemonc Gaze, which is essentially a neutron burst cannon, so she can kill Crisis if you are unwary.

Much like Skarbrand, she isn't too fast. Unlike Skarbrand, she can't get an armour save, and relies heavily on the 4+ to keep her alive. Hit her with all your S6+ weapons, and she'll die in short order. Ion cannon, MP and plasma are all effective ways to get wounds on her. Also, should you have spare railgun, use them to get wounds on her.

Bloodthirster: God-like stats. Upgrades are a plasma pistol (which doesn't overheat), and a few close-combat bonuses.

All your AP1/2 shooting must go into this guy. Seeker missiles are also a good option; hit him with a Pathfinder or SMT, and then unload a Skyray onto him. It's imperative to eliminate the Bloodthirster as soon as possible; he is fast, tough, packs an accurate S7 shot for killing skimmers, and he'll chew through Kroot tarpits in no time. Even Farsight can't stand up to it.

Lord of Change: Probably the most balanced of them all, and while dangerous he isn't a close-combat powerhouse. The way he works in combat is through Soul Devourer, which forces you to take LD tests for unsaved wounds. So you can potentially force 3-4 tests in 1 round of combat, which is great for removing annoying characters. The rest of the upgrades are pretty straightforward; turning a model into Spawn, assault multi-melta, shooting two powers a turn, shooting at two different units. He comes with Daemonic Gaze standard.

Much like with Fateweaver, massing fire is how to kill him. Unlike Fateweaver however, pulse weapons are not effective, because of the T6. Ion cannon, missile pod, plasma...throw the book at this guy. He is dangerous for Tau, because he packs accurate move+shoot anti-tank and anti-infantry, sometimes in the same shooting phase (depending on Gifts). He'll also hurt in combat. Teamed with Fatewaver they will be quite a headache, able to soak up your S6+ shooting, while launching multi-melta into your tanks (while at the same time shooting up infantry with Breath or Gaze).

Named Heralds:

The Masque: She can shoot 3 different units with Pavane. Other than that, she's basically a slightly more powerful Daemonette. Can't join units, so when she comes down, hit her with pulse fire. Her invul save will break to it no problems.

Epidemius: A Plaguebearer with multiple wounds and attacks. He has Cloud of Flies (so offensive and defensive grenades), and his Tally of Pestilence. The only way it's going to trigger the more nasty effects is if the Daemon player takes a couple of Nurgle Princes with wings and hacks up a lot of people in combat; Plaguebearers and Nurglings simply won't kill enough. I would ignore him, he's not much of a threat.

The Blue Scribes: Multi-wound Horror with multiple attacks. Their gimmick is that they have every shooting power, and can shoot twice at different units. Their problem is that when shooting the second time, you have to roll a dice to see if they do what you want. 50% of the time they use the same power as before; 50% of the time, they do what you wanted. They are a two-wound Scout essentially (T4, 4+ save), hit them with enough pulse fire and they'll dissapear.

Skulltaker: More potent Bloodletter (even more wounds if on a Juggernaut or Chariot). His special rule is quite deadly; he Rends on 50% of his attacks, and any Rending hit inflicts instant death. He has Iron Hide, and will probably be on a Juggernaut (so he can keep IC status and join a unit of Bloodcrushers). He has a decent number of wounds, but if you can negate his Iron Hide he is just Daemon Prince essentially. One very useful unit is Vespid; backed up with a couple of markerlight hits, you can chip away at his wounds and bodyguard. You don't risk your Crisis getting in rapid-fire range, and while the Vespid won't survive the subsequent charge, you can always charge in Kroot after shooting up the unit, to buy you time to reposition.

Generic Heralds; As above. The only difference is that the named Heralds have more Gifts standard, while generic Heralds can only take 3 gifts. They can take chariots/mounts though, so the Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slannesh Heralds may be more mobile than the named Heralds, and in some cases have more wounds (Tzeentch and Slannesh).

Thats it for HQ. Don't forget, Daemon players can take 2 Heralds per HQ slot.

Elites:

Fiends of Slannesh: Fast and deadly close-combat Beasts, so they'll be assaulting fast. Up to 6 in a squad. They are fairly expensive though, so you won't see many. Low save, so massed pulse fire and missile pod will kill them quickly. Firestorms can kill them, but you do risk getting caught in combat (due to their 12" charge), so hang back if in doubt.

Flamers of Tzeentch: Extremely shooty, they have Warpfire and Breath of Chaos. One can take assault multi-melta power. Also expensive, but very dangerous for Tau. The default tactic by Daemon players is to fire 3-strong units into clusters of enemies and flame away. The Flamer bomb can be highly effective, so minimise by spreading out your forces and denying DS with cheap bodies (like Kroot). Their standard shooting is burst cannon ROF+range, but AP4 bolter, so mechanised FW's are safest. The Devilfish hull will prevent the Breath of Chaos from reaching them, and you'll be able to make 4+ cover saves against their normal shooting. They are not particularly tough, Scout Marine stats mostly. You can tie them up with Kroot, but they are Jump Infantry, so you'll have to catch them after they arrive.

Bloodcrushers of Khorne: Nasty assault unit. They are expensive though (same as vanilla Terminator), so again you shouldn't be facing down many of these. Pump as much AP3- into them as possible, they have to die before reaching combat. They are slow (Infantry, no Fleet), so you should be able to gun them down before they reach you. Usually form a bodyguard for Skulltaker.

Beasts of Nurgle: Joke unit. Too slow to reach combat, randomised attacks. Pulse fire if you are bored.

Troops:

Bloodletters: Similar statline to PAGK. One of them can buy Rending, another can get an Icon. They don't have Fleet, so hit them with FoF. Their Hellblades are unlikely to do any damage to the Devilfish, and their save will break. If you have a spare Railhead drop submunitions onto them as well. Charge Kroot in if desperate, as their power weapons are totally wasted. It's a pretty good trade, because they are over twice as expensive as Kroot. Hit them with a good FoF, then charge in Kroot to hold them in combat.

Daemonettes: Rending nastiness, but only GEQ. Pulse fire will hurt them, and with the nerf to Rending, you can FoF without too much fear. Submunitions will clean them up too.

Plaguebearers: Tarpit unit. Extremely slow, and terrible in combat. Daemon player will probably camp them on the objective, or use them to screen other units. I would ignore them, you won't have enough AP1/2 to kill squads. They'll soak up pulse fire and AP3+ no problems, especially in cover.

Horrors: Only have Warpfire. One can get assault multi-melta, and one Horror per army can be turned into the Changeling (a named character). Glamour is annoying, but if you have Shadowsun nearby your FW's can hopefully ignore it. Mass pulse fire into them, they are only Guardsman in carapace. Kroot will tarpit them in combat, and depending on how you roll you may even win combat.

Nurglings: Infantry speed, so they're easy to see and counter. Submuniton rounds should they threaten to tie up units in combat.

Fast Attack:

Flesh Hounds: Basically MeQ statline. Beasts, so watch out for their quick assault. Karnak can boost the unit. Unlike Bloodletters, no power weapons, although Karnak (and another member of the unit) can get Fury of Khorne (Rending). Just hit them with a FoF, they can't really hurt a Devilfish. Submunition rounds are also effective.

Seekers: Daemonettes on cavalry. FoF, or just hit them with massed pulse fire usin Firestorms.

Screamers of Tzeentch: Only purpose is to kill armour (they have meltabombs). Do not let them charge your vehicles; mass pulse fire them to death as a priority, they are jetbikes and therefore highly mobile. With the new rules about hitting non-WS in the rear armour, you don't want them anywhere near your skimmers.

Furies: Generic Daemon, you won't see them used. They're Jump Infantry, but they lack any real assault potential outside their MeQ statline. Much like Hounds, they'll die to a good FoF. They are somewhat effective as a tarpit unit (against Crisis etc), so kill them should they threaten to assault.

Heavy Support:

Soul Grinder: AV13 Defiler. A real problem for both vehicles and infantry, and it's nasty in close combat. Railguns, seeker missiles (into the rear armour), fusion Piranha. MP and ion cannon are only good if you can target the rear.

Daemon Prince: Most versatile and customizable unit. Kind of a cheaper, slightly worse version of the Greater Daemons, with all the upgrades available. If no Iron Hide, mass pulse fire; if it has Iron Hide (which invariably it does), use your AP3- firepower. They will always have wings (despite the expensive, 2/3rds of base cost)

Now, onto units I would take;

HQ:

Commander Shadowsun
(175 points)

Her fusion blasters can take care of Soulgrinders, and put wounds on the Greater Daemons. Her Ld bubble is useful for ignoring things like Glamour and Pavane, as well as generally keeping things like Broadsides and static FW's from running due to casualties.

Shas'O, PR, CIB, SG, Stims, hw multi
(145 points)

He has a high ROF for killing infantry, and the AP1/2 for engaging Nurgle and Iron Hide. He makes a good companion to a Vespid team, and is reasonably survivable.

Elite:

Tm L, BC, MP, MT, 2 x shield drones, BK
Shas'ui, BC, MP, MT
(140 points)

Relatively inexpensive, good range, and pumping out enough firepower to put a significant dent in infantry squads. They are tougher than a comparable Stealth team, and have the MP fire for engaging tougher targets (like Lords of Change). I would take 2-3 of these, they are very effective, flexible and make good support for a FoF.

Sha'vre, AFP, twin-MP, hw multi, shield drone
(93 points)

Twin-MP for putting wounds on GD's and Heralds, AFP for fragging Daemon Troops. A good auxilary to your Firestorm teams.

Troops:

12 x FW's, pulse rifles
Warfish, SMS, TA, MT, DP
(240 points)

Expensive, but you can usually outmanovure the Troops and some of the Elites with this team. The DL isn't really neccessary, a 5+ cover save is usually better against Daemonic anti-tank shooting. You can always add Flechette Dischargers, but they are so-so IMO. Funny though, when a large squad of Bloodletters or Daemonettes tries to charge.

10 x Kroot
(70 points)

Take a couple of these squads, and spread them out to maximum coverage to prevent DS options. They will also be useful for slowing down the Daemonic assault, after you've hit them with your firepower.

Fast Attack:

Piranha, FB, TA, seeker missile
(70 points)

Cheap and disposable, it can be useful for blocking assaults from the Keeper of Secrets (GUO won't reach you, and the other two will just fly over), when you add the spread from the drones. Fusion blaster is mainly for taking out any Soulgrinders that appear, and the seeker missile for putting a wound on Iron Hide Daemons. I wouldn't take more that 2.

You can take Pathfinders here, but it's not essential. I don't recommend them, but if you really need the markerlights, go for it. They are horribly vulnerable to counter-assault though.

Heavy Support:

Railhead, BC, MT, DP, DL
(175 points)

Solid shot is mainly for putting wounds on the GD's and killing Soulgrinders, otherwise I would fire off the submunitions into infantry. BC's to put even more wounds into the target. With a 5+ cover save and the DL's, you have a pretty survivable tank.

Ionhead, BC, MT, DP, DL
(135 points)

Pretty cheap, and great for tackling Iron Hide units, as well as killing infantry.

BASS Tm L, twin-PR, hw mt, 2 x shield drones, BK
BASS Shas'ui, twin-PR
(220 points)

Given the assault nature of the Daemon codex, you are quite likely to enter 12" shooting range. Outside that range, the railguns will kill Soulgrinders and put wounds on the GD's. They can form a powerful anchor to your firebase. I would only take 1-2, you really need a Railhead or Ionhead for additional anti-infantry/GD firepower.

Skyray, BC, TA, MT, DP, DL
(155 points)

If you have a SMT or a Pathfinder squad, this can be a powerful anti-GD unit. A good seeker salvo will make it easier to finish off the beast with railgun and ion cannon. The BC have the higher ROF you'll need to put wounds on Princes and mop up infantry.

Tau should do pretty well at shooting up Daemons, and if you use Kroot wisely to tarpit survivors or the MC's, you can avoid assault. Anything with 12" movement or assault range should be a priority target, especially for your Crisis and skimmers. I didn't recommend them, but should you have spare points, gun drones can be useful for blocking assaults and mopping up units (everything is Fearless so Pinning won't happen at all). I would just use the free ones off Piranha (or Devilfish if you are trying to save points).

Deployment and LOS are going to be critical. Given the weird deployment of Daemons, you need to force anything that does deploy to come down right into your fire lanes. Only the Tzeentchian Daemons have real shooting ability (outside of the GD's and Princes), so all the others will be waiting for next turn to assault (after some repositioning with Run, under 5th Ed).
Strike hard, strike fast.

Absintheminded
Shas
Posts: 452

Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#13 » Jun 15 2008 06:13

I'm just going to point menacingly towards an evil strategic asset should you find them in apocalypse: disruptor beacon. Add the pirahna formation or multiple formations of them, and then suddenly you're choosing where they are ending up. Cluster them all far away and pump submunition shots into them, pin the outlying creatures to prevent escape. If you manage to be able to have more than one asset, get ambush as well.

So sinister it's ambidextrous(can't help esoteric wordplay).
Tau Physician: Patient Hunter

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Taipan
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#14 » Jun 16 2008 05:35

:eek: Dude, that is evil. Would be heaps of fun, especially considering how many Daemons and MC's you'll see in an Apocalypse. game. Can the beacon be destroyed at all? I'm just thinking that a Lord of Change might live long enough to multi-melta it to death, freeing up the rest coming in from Reserves.
Strike hard, strike fast.

Absintheminded
Shas
Posts: 452

Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#15 » Jun 16 2008 08:11

It is not stated in the entry whether is has an armor value, wounds etc. This leads me to assume it is basically represented by indestructible terrain. I also assume it is immobile, unless you're using the piranha formation(s) and overlapping their 48" sphere of influence.
Tau Physician: Patient Hunter

Anasa
Shas
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Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#16 » Jul 04 2008 06:03

It reads on frontline assets that they count as immobile, have armour 13 on all sides and get destroyed on a glancing or penetrating hit. But yeah, a disruptor beacon or the piranha formation would be really deadly against daemons

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gr1m_dan
Shas
Posts: 333

Re: [Tactica] Chaos Daemons

Post#17 » Jul 08 2008 12:50

Im glad this tactica has been posted because I have had nothing but earache from my friend who is going to start Daemons because he lost four times as Eldar to them. Basically if you can't beat them, join them! So he believes that he will be able to mop up my Tau in no time. I think with a few of these tips I should be able to handle him with a fair amount of ease ;-) Especially with the new LOS rules, should open up more firelines that he wont be able to respond to in time!

Thanks :-)
The Shadow that strikes, he that walks unseen

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