Eldar Troubles

A review of past Alien Tactics by commanders during the First and Second Phase Expansion.
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sunbreath
Shas
Posts: 38

Eldar Troubles

Post#1 » May 13 2008 06:09

(If a Mod could move this to the Tactica section that would be great)
So my Brother got a TON of new models :eek: He also got the new codex, the thing is he won't let me look at it and when i do its only rule discrepancies. So I need a few tips on what to do against his guys and what are some of the new rules or special rules that would be of interest to know. Thank you

He has:
1 fire prism
1 Falcon
1 Wraithlord
1 Autarch with fusion blaster
1 Farseer with singing spear and shuriken pistol
4 Warlocks, 1 with two handed withchblade (does it make a difference?) 1 with a singing spear, one with a singing spear and shuriken pistol and one with a witchblade and shuriken pistol.
5 or 6 (I'm doing this from memory) warp spiders with exarch
6 Striking Scorpions with exarch
6 Dark Reapers with exarch
5 Rangers
20 Guardians
3 Shining spears with exarch

I have:
1 Rail head (permanent)
12 Fire warriors
1 Marker light Drone
2 shield drones
26 gun drones
10 xv8's that are customizable (I like the Ninja'o tactic what would be good since his guys usually rush at me?)
2 Fire knifes (Permanent)
1 xv8 with AFP and Fusion Blaster (permanent)
6 stealth suits
16 Kroot no shaper

It would be much appreciated if you guys could help me since I've only played his new guys once and they got to me pretty fast but I barely won.

P.S. as to the permanent guys they were done that way until i realized i could use magnets
(edit: I forgot to mention that my brother generally focuses on destroying my tank so he uses bright lances and other anti tank weapons)
Last edited by Eiglepulper on May 20 2008 09:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: "what are some of the new rules or special rules": against forum rules to post such things in detail.
Always ALWAYS have RAILGUNS!!

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El'Vex
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#2 » May 14 2008 12:45

shoot'em hard! shoot'em quickly!

Now seriously.

First of all forget about O'Ninja combination.
Secondly witchblade wonds as spear but you cannot trow it like you can with spear
Shining guys are avensome i truly love them...12' of move that shoot and the in CC 6' either charging or just mowing and ofcourse they do have hit'n'run
Scorpions can infiltrate and they are pretty good at CC

Flammer is what hurt eldar the most and ofcourse bursts, pulses and templates(railhaead have it but you need to decide witch is more important fire prism falcon or others).

Try to avoid(easy to say I know) his rush and shoot shoot shoot! ;)
Allso fusions and MP are good option.

To tell the truth if you can provide exact army list i can give you more straith answer.

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Shas'O'Or'Es'Kauyon
Kor
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Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#3 » May 15 2008 11:05

If you can, try to take out his farseer and other psycic guys as quickly as you can. I always get so annoyed when I play againt eldar, because they have their little Guide and Fortune rules that let them re-roll practically everything. That's what I'd do, at least.

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sunbreath
Shas
Posts: 38

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#4 » May 17 2008 08:50

I ended up beating him which was great. With my Deathrains i killed his Fireprism on a penetrating hit which was just pure luck. My Ninja'o worked perfectly against his farseer and warlocks seeing as he tied them up from turns 4-6 which was perfect. What made me nervous though was when he deepstriked his warp spiders and swooping hawks behind my lines. I easily took out the warp spiders with the plama rifles i equipped on my death rains (thankfully :biggrin: ) With my firewarriors i finished of the warp spider exarch. With my anti infantry group consisting of my Ionstorm and two guys equipped with TLBC and they all had drone controllers with two gun drones. I ended up killing all of his swooping hawks and pinned the exarch. From there i killed his heavy support and then he gave up because all he had left was a farseer with 2 wounds a falcon only with a shuriken cannon (i disabled his other two weapons) and a 10 man squad of guardians while all i lost was 10 kroot 10 GD 4 FW and 1 XV8 it was a good game overall though. Oh i forgot to mention my firewarriors beat the 2 remaining men of his Striking Scorpion Squad :eek: .
Always ALWAYS have RAILGUNS!!

BrotherErekose
Shas
Posts: 157

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#5 » May 17 2008 06:14

I've played Tau for a full two years now and have been beaten and have won games against Eldar. Some things I found:

The Farseer and his unit: In games I had lost, I spent a lot of fire power, fruitlessly, on a Fortuning Farseer unit, first thing in the game. With all of my fire power there, other eldar units were free to reak havoc with my army. When I'd done better, I had focused fire power on immediate threats. Afterwards, I go after the Farseer near last (because I've destroyed everything else). - mind you, I can only recall one game with a Farseer supported by a bunch of warlocks. I'm glad the ninja'o thing worked out for you here.

Most of my opponents have a Farseer supporting Dark Reapers, or careening around on a bike. Plus the occassional pheonix lord (special characters that go specifically with an elite eldar unit) ...

Get a hot date to take your brother out long enough to look over the codex while he's out! You gotta learn the enemy! Also, GW just released an Eldar codex errata @
http://uk.games-workshop.com/news/errata/3
----------------------------------------------
Everything eldar is better in h2h than even kroot, so it is all shoot-shoot-shoot, with one exception, below. Going with the list of models that your brother has, you're best off destroying/shooting in order (more-or-less):

1. Rangers/Pathfinders (it is confusing that Tau have a unit called "Pathfinders" too, but Eldar PFs are just Eldar Rangers (which are based on SM snipers) upgraded to better cover saves and shooting.

1 (tie for first). Dark Reapers - their equivalent of a marine devastator squad, long range, good STR and AP3 (so they'll kill XV8s!).

2. The Shining Spears - because they have the Hit and Run, he can chose to disengage and recharge a unit. Icky. Having a long loop of kroot (a Kroot Loop!, HAw! ;) ) around your unit that he most likely wants assaulted is a good counter-charge measure. At only 3 they're not too bad, but once he ups them to the full sized unit of 5....

3. Fire Prism/Falcon - the best you can expect (unlike your game that you posted, lucky indeed!) is to keep these things shaken or stunned all game. So, once you give it a 'shaken' result, concentrate fire power on his other units. If you 'stun' it though, (and if there aren't any other immediate threats) during the next turn when it will not count as having moved, take advantage and pour fire power into it for the "Pen Hit" result chart; which is more likely to destroy the thing. This would be a turn 5 or 6 option, considering "other eldar units" are going to be 'immediate' threats ... . :nice:

The Wraithlord, being slow, is a lower priority. So, eventually, the fireknives ought to take responsibility for this revenant. It'll be hard to wound (high Toughness), but great AP plasma is the answer.

One thing your brother might purchase soon, is the dreaded virbo cannon heavy wep; a non-LoS wepean that gets automatic glances on vehicles. The Tau non-LoS wep is the answer: The Smart Missile System. I hate these V cannons.

Your next purchase? I'd recommend Broadsides.
-------------
I hope this helps you continue to paste your brother, as you should not count on bagging the Fire Prism so easily next time.
-Brother Erekose

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sunbreath
Shas
Posts: 38

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#6 » May 17 2008 06:36

I just read his entire Codex while he was upstairs sleeping. As for the hot date he's only 12 ;). But now i know his army like the back of my hand like his old Codex. He'll never know what hit him. But he also is'nt as good as he could be preferring the eldritch storm psy power instead of casting fortune which is very very stupid of him but i won't tell. i also printed of the errata. I was also planning to purchase Broadsides next seeing as all of my XV8s just came from my big box called "The Rapid Insertion Force". Besides I needed a bit more support fire. But if my brother gets wise enough to actually stratagise he could win. But he also just read my post and now he's wicked ticked on me having read it. Oh well. He'll calm down.
Always ALWAYS have RAILGUNS!!

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the blind knight
Shas
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Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#7 » Jun 04 2008 10:20

It never to early for hot dates. :D


Since i don't want to start another Eldar thread can i ask some question on this tread?


Anyway theres a series of 500 tournament in our club(schocingly I am third overall)and the first player has 12 straight wins.Lucikly I havent yet run into him but the chances are getting bigger every round.Now he is a Eldar player that has a list someting like this:

A huge six inches large metal monstrous creature(Avatar or whats its name)
2x five Warp spiders
5x Rangers
an HQ choice with some pyshic power

Now the strange thing is that the Avatar(?) has never been killed before.Is it THAT tough or are the rest of us mortals idiots.

My list that has served suporbly so far is:

Shaso
fusion blaster
flamer
vectroid retro thrusters
H.W multi tracker
stimulant injection
118

10x fire warriors
Warfish
220

10x kroot
70

Now the last 92 points are either spent on 3 stelath suits with a fusion or a broadside with ASS,team leader and multi tracker.


So my main question is.How do we kill it?

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M'kraik
Shas
Posts: 5

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#8 » Jun 04 2008 12:42

Hi! I'm new here but thought I'd take a shot at answering your questions. Does your league use a modified FOC? Because eyeballing his list it appears to be illegal. Warp Spiders are a Fast Attack choice, which means he only has one Troop choice (the Rangers). He could get away with that if you were using Combat Patrol rules, but then the Avatar would be illegal - too many Wounds.

Of course, it's much more satisfying to beat the list anyway, isn't it? I'm assuming that the second HQ he is fielding is a bargain-basement Farseer with Fortune, in which case the Avatar really is that tough. It's rerolling 3+ armor/4+ invulnerable saves and has 4 wounds. No wonder it hasn't been killed yet. So here's what I would suggest: Avoid the Avatar. It's a trap. You'll never kill it while the Farseer is alive, so don't worry about it at first. It's slow and plodding and its only ranged attack is 12", so you should never have to worry about it - if it gets close, just run away. The Warfish team can make the Rangers their main target early on by zipping forward and raking the unit with SMS and Burst Fire, and/or looking for a FoF opportunity (remember to stay away from the Avatar, though, it's sporting a 12" S9 Melta attack so he'll try to down the Warfish if he can). Once the rangers are gone, swing the empty Warfish around his back lines to hunt down the Farseer and have the Fire Warriors take potshots at Spiders.

As for the Kroot and your Shas'o, this is gonna sound crazy but try to engage the Warp Spiders in close combat. Spiders without an Exarch are awful at CC and locking them up prevents them from firing their S6 weaponry. Also, force him to keep moving them - every time he uses the warp jump packs he risks losing a model, and since his guns only have a 12" range he has to get close to use them. Kite him around until you have a good opportunity to charge and then take it. If all goes well you can whittle his force down to just the Avatar and maybe a few remnants. Don't worry about killing everything, just beat him on VPs. Good luck!

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gr1m_dan
Shas
Posts: 333

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#9 » Jun 05 2008 09:14

Me and my friend had 3 500ish point battles, he won one, i won one, and we drew. Pretty fair.

However...

Stealth Suits. I cannot stress enough how in a 500 pt game, a 4 man squad of Stealth suits pretty much took out his two Guardian units alone. The maps were terrain heavy (his tactic of getting 4+ saves for Guardians I reckon!) so this helped amazingly, on a more open game I reckon I'd of won a lot quicker. With two Crisis Deathrains I took out the Dire Avenger squad at range, just to stop them doing that crazy 3 shoots per model thing. He just tried to rush me every game but with some smart fire bases and annoying JSJ tactics he just got annoyed and didn't know what unit to go for. Score!

Get as many S5 shots out there as possible. You will wound nearly all his army on a 2+ with no armour saves unless he takes a lot of Craftworld stuff in which case he'll not have that many. Even still you are wounding them like no one else can!
The Shadow that strikes, he that walks unseen

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sunbreath
Shas
Posts: 38

Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#10 » Jun 21 2008 12:50

As for the Warp Spiders losing a model it is only when they move again in the assault phase. Also to take the Avatar out kill the Farseer first!!!
Always ALWAYS have RAILGUNS!!

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Taipan
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
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Re: Eldar Troubles

Post#11 » Jun 22 2008 02:18

@ sunbreath; Cool name ;) .

Ahem, fighting Eldar. Well, it's best if we do it on a Force Org structure.

HQ:

How to kill Farseer; He will most likely be on a jetbike, so he has MeQ statline (although he is insta-gibbed by T6), and his normal 4+ invul. There are three units ideally suited to fragging such a unit; Vespid, a Centurion Shas'O and an Ionhead. A 9-strong squad of Vespid, with a boost to BS4, will take apart a Farseer (2.5 unsaved wounds). Likewise, a Centurion (PR+CIB) will deal 2.4 unsaved wounds, and if the Farseer fails to save against the PR, insta-gib ensues. Thirdly, an Ionhead is a perfect weapon (especially if you can get in range to use the BC's). With the Ion cannon alone you can slay him, because he's only likely to refract the first S7 hit off his 4+ save, the other will get through and insta-gib. Alternatively, a FoF will deal 3.75 unsaved wounds, which is enough to wipe him out.

How to kill Autarch: Again, he is likely to be on jetbike. Some people take him with the Warp Spider jump pack, but it's quite random and has less buffs than a jetbike. Same principles as with Farseer; hit him with massed AP3/2, or an Ionhead. Failing that, FoF the dude.

How to kill Avatar: Kill the rest of the Eldar first. It's slow, short-ranged and makes nearby units Fearless. If said units are dead, it's no longer any use. When you're done killing everything else, hit him with Ionheads, MP's and PR. If he threatens to melta something or charge, tie him up with Kroot or Gun Drones.

The characters are not commonly encountered, Eldrad+Avatar is common (but pretty useless, for the same reasons that the Avatar is useless). The other characters are either slow, or chained to joining an Aspect squad of the same type. Seeing as you'll face Aspect squads anyway, they give the same buffs+Fearless, so the Aspect characters are essentially Exarchs on steroids.

Elite:

How to kill Scorpions: Mechanise. Static lists are going to especially vulnerable to these guys in 5th Ed (because of the changes to Infiltrate), but if you have everything moving 12" and firing, Scorpions lose out. Lacking Fleet, they can't catch you. A FoF will really put the hurt on these guys (3.75 casualties), and using Firestorm teams and submunition rounds you can clean them up. A Vespid squad is really nasty as well, able to drop 5 Scorpions at BS4. Centurion is also highly effective.

How to kill Fire Dragons: These guys are the death of vehicles and Crisis, but useless in combat and at shooting infantry (unless they get the flamer on the Exarch). A good policy is to hit them with a FoF, a Firestorm team or Vespid, then charge Kroot in. The Kroot will win combat, and you can finish off the retreating survivors at your lesiure.

How to kill Wraithguard: Well, much like with Avatar, I wouldn't bother until you've killed everything else. You'll face one of two combo's; large foot-slogging squads with a Warlock with Conceal (giving them 3+/5+), or 5 x WG and the Warlock in a Serpent. For foot-sloggers, ignore them. For the Serpent squad, disable the transport, then ignore them. If either threatens to get in range, tie them up with Kroot or Gun Drones.

How to kill Banshees: You'll usually face a mechanised squad of these girls, due to their relative fragility. Disable the transport, then drop submunition rounds on them (using markerlights to reduce any cover saves they may have). Firestorms or a FoF will also kill them, and charging in Kroot wastes their power weapons. They can Fleet, and on the charge they are nasty in combat, so once they are foot-slogging keep your distance and hammer them with fire. A good FoF will also clean them up quite well, given their mediocre 4+ save.

How to kill Harlies: These guys will definitely be in a Holo-Falcon. With the reduction in speed for Eldar (due to 5th Ed nerf of skimmers), disabling their transport is made a little easier. Once they are out, hit them with Firestorms and FoF. Massed S5 will really take them apart, due to their 5+ save. You can potentially wipe out an entire Falcon squad with a single FoF. Much like with Banshees, stall with Kroot and Gun Drones, and hit them with ranged firepower.

Troops:

How to kill Dire Avengers: These guys try to beat us at our own game; their Serpent of Fury pumps out more bolter shots at slightly greater range, but they have to wait to reload next turn (should they choose to Bladestorm). Disable the transport (seeing a common theme yet? :D ), then drop submunition rounds into them. They have a move+shoot range of 24", so be careful with Crisis, only move in to mop up the squad. Exarch can be effective in combat, but generally he'll pack dual catapults and Bladestorm. A counter-FoF is quite effective, as the Wave Serpent is unlikely to kill the Devilfish (unless it takes EML/BL, and even then it's 1 shot, which only damages on a 4+, and you have a 4+ save from your DP), and your pulse rifles will frag more Avengers than they will back.

How to kill Rangers; Two options here. Firstly, use Kroot to counter-Infiltrate, then hold them up in combat. Secondly, use the AFP. It wounds them on 3+ and ignores their spiffy 2+ cover save, and pins to boot (plus its large blast). Combined with their average Ld and medium squad size, you have a reasonable expectation to wipe them out, or pin the survivors.

How to kill Guardians: You really only see them in themed armies. Against Tau, Firestorms, submunition rounds, FoF, even Kroot can pretty easily beat these guys. Medium-large squads, trying to protect a heavy weapon. While they do it better than IG, it's not terribly suited to the Eldar way of war; fast and specialised. If there is a Warlock giving them cover saves, drop AFP onto them.

Fast Attack:

How to kill Shining Spears; These guys are basically the bane of Crisis and skimmers. However, they are only a small squad, and fairly expensive. A Vespid squad will decimate these guys, especially when backed up by markerlights or a Centurion. If you don't kill the last squad member, charge into combat to deny them movement and shooting (you might even finish the last guy off, their awesome S6 power weapons only activate if they charge, same for the S8 power weapon on the Exarch). Without the charge they are pretty weak in combat.

How to kill Warp Spiders: Very annoying unit, very fast as well. They are the death of Crisis and infantry, and they can also glance skimmers rear armour to death quite readily. Reasonably priced, and a staple of many Eldar armies. Use something to lure them out, then hit them with your Centurion and Vespid. Assault any survivors. Failing that, hit them with a FoF, Firestorms or submunition rounds.

How to kill Swooping Hawks; These can be annoying with their grenade pack ability, but generally they are not very effective against infantry. However, they can be extremely lethal to skimmers, hitting on 4+ with haywire grenades is really effective. Submunition rounds, failing that hit them with massed S5. Their lasblasters are essentially hellguns, so outside of combat they are not very dangerous. In combat with infantry they will also die; Vespid shooting+assault is quite good as a counter, considering Vespid have the speed to catch them.

How to kill Vypers: Ion cannon, MP. Deathrains and Firestorms are very effective at destroying these fragile skirmishers. Massed S5 can also kill them.

Heavy Support:

How to kill Support weapons: Submunition them. In most cases (aside from vibro-cannon), their firepower is short-ranged, so shooting them up from long range is best.

How to kill Dark Reapers: Their AP3 is death to Crisis and infantry alike, so prevent them from shooting. They'll usually be camped with a Farseer at the back, raining death into your lines. Vespid are fast enough (and can move through cover pretty quick) to get to them and cause havok. Shoot them up, then assault. In combat you'll either draw or win, because they will have less bodies and less attacks. Even if you lose the Vespid, they'll lose shooting time, which gives you the oppertunity to move up your vulnerable Crisis and infantry. If you can't shift them, a FoF (they can't hurt AV12+) and submunition rounds will whittle away at the squad. Take out the Farseer if he is nearby (he'll usually be attached though, so just shoot the squad).

How to kill the Wraithlord: Despite the slowness you'll wanna kill him, because his brightlance will destroy vehicles. However, he is quite tough, so you are usually better off tying him up with Kroot. While he mashes 7pt infantry up slowly, you can move your vehicles around safely. Don't hestiate to charge, he has two flamers and will obliterate Kroot if they hang back.

How to kill the Falcon; Arguably the toughest vehicle in 40k, 5th ed rightly nerfs it. It is still highly surviable, so preventing movement and shooting is key. MP, ion cannon, seeker missiles...and of course Piranha fusion blaster and railgun helps with disabling it. Try to outflank it; lure it's passengers (Harlies, Banshees, Wraithguard) to a target, then send a unit over/around it to get at the AV10 rear.

How to kill Fire Prism: Disabling this vehicle is of greater import, as it's a powerhouse of anti-everything shooting. Two Fire Prims+Harlie Falcon is a tough and effective setup. Combining shots gives them a single twin-linked railgun blast, or a twin-linked AP3 submunition blast. Use MP and ion cannon to stun/shake, finish them off with fusion/seekers/railgun.
Strike hard, strike fast.

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