Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Cadres who fought and bled under 6th edition rules.
User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#91 » Apr 11 2014 07:52

CoffeeGrunt wrote:XV9s are...well...

They have a place, but only if you've filled up on XV8s.


They do have a place, a special place in my heart. If I could afford to take them (both monatarily and points wise) I would for sure, such a solid unit.

As for Anti air issues I think the best option is to, and what's worked wonders for me so far, is a Riptide with HBC/ECPA/VT with some marker light support

*edit* Did not appreviate Earth Caste Pilot Array at all!
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#92 » Apr 11 2014 08:10

I have a love for the idea of XV9s, but god the price of them is silly. Fusion Cascades are such a cool weapon, but at 105pts per suit for 2D3 shots? Sorry but no.

The short range really hurt me when I tried them out against a friend's Grey Knights. This was with me thinking they were 10pts cheaper, too!

CariadocThorne
Shas
Posts: 425

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#93 » Apr 11 2014 08:37

I love the concept of the xv9, but they are simply too inefficient in terms of the firepower they put out for their cost.

That said, immunity to ID from the many s8/9 weapons out there can be a big mitigating factor against some opponents.

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#94 » Apr 11 2014 08:45

I dunno, I've found them pretty fragile. They pay for durability out the nose, yet +1T, +1 WS and +1I are't much in the grand scheme, especially the last two as it puts them on par with a Guardsman in CQC, only with greater Strength and defensive stats.

The Fusion Cascades seem like a nice, versatile weapon, and if they were a free upgrade alongside the PIGs and PSRs, they'd all see use. Why the writer thought 115pts for 2 S5, Ap6 templates made sense I'll never know...

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#95 » Apr 11 2014 09:08

Going back to missile sides. I have found they are quite a good firebase anchor for the enclaves. I played a game recently where I put 6 of them supported by an hbc riptide, deathtrain crisis team with marker drones and a commander attached to the deathtrains, all behind an aegis line with a comms relay. Then as my opponent rushed all his jetbikes towards this firebase, I outflanked with two stealth teams with homing beacons and deep striked 4 barebones plasma crisis teams (Think I had 2 crisis in each team and maybe 2 gun drones). Nearly perfect killing blow. Much blood for farsights sword was shed that day...

Also going back to using the 8, heres an army list I was thinking of that is pure xv8's and uses Farsight, Bravestorm and Sha'vastos as tanks for plasma squads.

+++ Farsight 8 +++
* Farsight's Commander Team
* Commander Bravestorm
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer, Onager Gauntlet, Plasma rifle, Shield generator, Stimulant injector, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit
* 2x Gun Drone

* Commander Sha'vastos
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer, Plasma rifle, Puretide Engram Neurochip, Shield generator, Vectored retro-thrusters
* 2x Gun Drone


+ HQ +

* Commander Farsight
Crisis battlesuit, Plasma rifle, Shield generator, The Dawn Blade


+ Troops +

* Fire Warrior Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
12x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle
* Fire Warrior Shas'ui


* XV8 Crisis Team - this one would have Farsight in my mind. For precision deep striking
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Fusion blaster , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Fusion blaster , Target lock
* 2x Gun Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team - Bravestorm here to tank for the squad
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Fusion blaster , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , 2x Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Plasma rifle
* 4x Gun Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team - Sha'vastos Could go here when fighting MC's
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Fusion blaster, Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , 2x Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Plasma rifle
* 4x Gun Drone

* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , Missile pod , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Target lock
* 6x Marker Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team - Sha'vastos could also go here for mech armies.
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , Missile pod , Target lock
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Target lock
* 6x Marker Drone


+ Fortification +
* Aegis Defense Line
Comms relay

User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#96 » Apr 11 2014 09:33

AngryAlbatross wrote:Also going back to using the 8, heres an army list I was thinking of that is pure xv8's and uses Farsight, Bravestorm and Sha'vastos as tanks for plasma squads.


I like the overall feel of the army, but I think the other guys may be right in that "The 8" characters are just too expensive. I'm more of a "press buttons and figure it out" kind of person so I'd say try it out, see what works and what doesn't, then revamp. It's you have to take things you don't really need on the ICs and it seems like those points could be better spent. Just my two cents on that however :biggrin:
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#97 » Apr 11 2014 11:39

"The 8" characters are just too expensive


Thats my feeling too. If I replace farsight and the commanders in the list posted above I can get two riptides, one with an earth caste - burst cannon and the other with an ion accelerator and both with stims. Arguably those would be better bullet sponges than the 8.

User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#98 » Apr 11 2014 12:22

There really are a lot of options to consider with an all suit list. I find it to be really dynamic, more so than just cookie-cutter tau
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#99 » Apr 11 2014 12:23

No arguably about it. Riptides are bullet sponges to the max.

User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#100 » Apr 16 2014 11:32

So I know we were talking about the use of missile sides, but after a reading a post, namely this one: http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22357 I'm inclined to think that the HRR might have a little more dynamic use. I'm not saying to cut missiles out entirely, but maybe each time have one HRR? Even run a team of two HRR and another of two Missiles. My thoughts behind this is the HRR with the advanced targeting relay sniping out leaders (discussed in the thread I linked) and the missiles taking out that 25% to force a LD check at a lower LD. Seems like a nice addition to the normal HRR role of killing high toughness/armor units. Just my two cents on the topic! :)
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#101 » Apr 17 2014 02:40

Your Snipersides can only pull off a Precision on a 5+ at best, and anyone important is going to get a 2+ Throw A Dude In The Way save to pass it on to a grunt.

Given how common T5/Eternal Warrior is, especially with Space Marines, it's not really worth the 78pts or so to put a Sniperside Shas'vre on the table. Plasma Crisis Suits with ATS will get more hits to trim specific members out of a team, and are able to score and be more mobile and versatile.

CariadocThorne
Shas
Posts: 425

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#102 » Apr 17 2014 03:05

I did have some success last year for a while, running 2 monat crisis shas'vre with ats, twin-linked plasma and gun drones.

The drones mainly helped them take a couple of wounds, and the suits where great at picking heavy and special weapons out of squads, which sometimes made a huge difference.

In the end I dropped them though, as in a lot of games I just didn't need the sniper role, or there where too many heavy/special weapon troopers for them to handle (especially in IG armies) so they didn't do much apart from give me a cheap objective grabber.

They are very situational, but can change a game sometimes.

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#103 » Apr 17 2014 03:13

That 2+ LOS applies to HQ's who are high priority targets yes, but not the only ones. I've used them to pick off all special weapons i can reach (such as plasma/las toting marines) to specific models that can be doubled out but otherwise wouldn't because of wound allocation shenanigans.

Its not something you need to have a lot of in your army. but it sure does make a big difference!

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#104 » Apr 17 2014 03:50

Still seems like a very niche use. I mean, Marines are the ideal, but against Xenos armies the units tend to be pretty homogeneous, so there's no real special weapons to pick out of squads more often than not. I also find T4 Multi-Wound to be pretty rare on anything that's not an Independent Character anyway.

I dunno, one Lascannon and your Sniper Shas'vre is an easy First Blood. I've just never found them useful or attractive to run.

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#105 » Apr 17 2014 04:40

the t4 multiwound is more in reference to orks and tyrannids. but i digress, the meta seems to be moving away from those units, so i can't say for sure how effective it will continue to be.

To be fair though, i usually prefer the use of the rail rifle broadside for ATS duty. twin-linking everything with all ap1/2 at its ranges mean its team can obliterate one squad

User avatar
Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1088

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#106 » Apr 17 2014 05:48

CoffeeGrunt wrote:I dunno, one Lascannon and your Sniper Shas'vre is an easy First Blood. I've just never found them useful or attractive to run.

That's why a Sniperside has to come in a HYMP Team (or at least with two drones): LOS improves its survivability by a factor 2 against instakill, and a good placing make it better in terms of wounds allocation.
Running ATS+HRR'vre in target-locked HYMP team cost the price of a drone and one-two bonding knive (and also the cost of no upgrade other than seeker). So it's relatilvely cheap and gives you flexibility without wasting 3xHYMP on only 36ps targets (most are already heavily wounded by 2xHYMP), in "classic" armies...

In an all-battlesuit army (to be on topic) the HRR is a kind of workaround of a Hammerhead AP1 (but with low Strengh) against AV12, even AV13, specially if the fusion suits cannot goes in range (massed infantry covering the grounds around the vehicle for example)
If you want S8 shots only (no matter AP), bring Seekers on the XV88 is a cheaper way (3 shot at BS5 no LOS ignore cover is quite as effective as 6-7 HRR BS3-twinlinked shots for the S8).
As the rules tells, they can be marker-fired in addition of the broadsides' other weapons.

Overally, HYMP in an all battlesuit army (specially with crisis as troops) seems not very useful (plenty of MP on cheaper and mobile troops platforms with the same range, the plasma/SMS are also redundant with mobile crisis suits: SMS can be replaced by BC or flamers), unless you play them aggressively on the move (twinlinked BS1), where they behave better with four shots rather than one shot.

HRR have the same stats than fusion but their range gives them another role and fits better as static support in "battlesuit" army than in "classic" armies (even if fusions can have one and another twin linked S8AP1 shot, better for close range).
Take them in squads for massed firepower (if you have markerlight support, specially for anti-air to not have to bring VT) or one by one with drones for terrain covering against small vehicles (or flyers with VT).
Gives them Seekers if you want and they can find a place if you need a battlesuit heavy support slot.

But I prefer running as many XV8 troops as I can before using the Broadside.

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#107 » Apr 17 2014 07:50

I may try this one day in a Broadside squad. I'm much more of a Deathrain fan, though. Mobility is the most important factor in Tau, IMO.

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: Can A Pure(ish) Battlesuit Army Be Competitive?

Post#108 » Apr 17 2014 08:46

Kael'yn wrote:unless you play them aggressively on the move (twinlinked BS1)

Going off this, I think we tend to see broadsides as being stuck in a position and not being mobile, but with the right setup they can be very mobile. Something I have been thinking about recently is putting an etherial in a squad of broadsides then supporting them with a squad of marker drones. Then the broadsides can move and run and snap shot (due to the etherial) with their BS boosted by the markerlights. moving 12" a turn at maximum.

Return to “Archival Datacore - 6th Edition”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest