1000 points-no kill like overkill-now with results

Cadres who fought and bled under 6th edition rules.
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boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
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1000 points-no kill like overkill-now with results

Post#1 » Apr 16 2014 10:10

Greeting fellow followers of the path, I am here to show my latest creation, a monstrosoty of a list designed for an upcoming turny, where "there is nothing that CANT be killed" is the key thought behind the list.
Honestly, I just found myself shoving more and more firepower into a list, seeking methods to pick off and destroy anything that might come my way, by providing a versatile and bothering pool of high-threat hard-to-kill targets.
Unfortunately, I have only 1 riptide for the job, so I improvised.
Also, the turny paramaters give points that stack across games for having your warlord alive at the end (so I made him though as nails), having your most expensive unit survive in over half model count (so my expensive unit is a lone, decked out riptide) forbiding enemy from controlling any corner (solved by absurd firepower) and having none of your units be one the run by the end (solved by having the squishy guys hide), as well as actually winning the game of a random pool of missions (hopefully done as well)

The lists goes as following, with TE main and FE allies:

HQ:
TE-Commander, PEN chip, iridium, stims, double fusions, NSJ
FE-Commander Ralai

Troops:
TE-8 firewarriors
TE-8 firewarriors
FE-3 crisis suits with 2 MP each.

Elite:
FE-riptide, HBC, SMS, ECPA, VT, stims

FA:
TE-tetra
TE-tetra


The overall model count here is 26-quite a small force, but also quite a fearsome one (I think, didn't get to test that theory yet)

Anti-tank answers comes in the form of the commander with double fusions and PEN for easy kills, the riptide with ECPA to assure the HBC to go off, and ralai's EMP shots. some light support from the suits to finish off any light armor.
Anti-MC comes in the form of the riptide, the commander and ralai again, as they got the tools for that as well. the suits provide light support again.
Anti horde? riptide again (this time ripple fire), and some assistance from the warriors and suits. ralai can also shine here with his double S4AP4 blasts (rending is a nice touch)
Anti air comes from the riptide mostly (that guy can take on anything), with hopefully some lucky marking allowing ralai or the commander to provide assistance (hopefully I can get them to be placed in such a position both can join each other and then share the marks to increase the chances of takedown)

The commander, in cast I see that the fusions are not fitting for the matchup, will join either the riptide, ralai or the suit squad for protection and granting them PEN status.


Possible switchs-I am considering to switch the commander to missile pods, but that will leave me in a shortage in case AV14 shows up, or to switch the suits to fusions-but then I will have a slight lack of volume of fire (its already a bit of an issue.

I have considered the "raven and iontide" combo, but I think that one is honestly too many eggs in one basket for the size of the matchs, and I would be without sufficient firepower.

Other available models contains a pair of hammerheads, 4 more crisis suits, and 8 more fire warriors, unfortunately nothing else I have fits into the requirements of the turny (fully painted and based)

So...what do you think of my plan? plain crazy, or just might be crazy enough to work?
Last edited by boomwolf on Apr 18 2014 04:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
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Posts: 1097

Re: 1000 points-no kill like overkill

Post#2 » Apr 16 2014 11:41

Very tough list.

I can see a counter of it: hordes on hormagaunt supported by MC. At 1k, you can face many of them.
These beasts are fast, and came for cheap. You FW teams may be wiped in an assault turn, you Crisis team can be nailed, leaving your elites to face swarms alone ...
Some flamers are cheap and can be helpful on your battlesuits (for the cost of some FW you can hide). Or add somwhere an AFP.

Other problems can be GK with their massed force weapons, that can deep-strike then instakill your riptide/commander/Ralai, loosing much of your points
They lets you few rounds of shooting before assaulting your monsters

Or armored platoons of Astra Militarum with too much AV14 you can handle when avoiding their guns

I expect you take these units based on what you expect (AV14 on 1k tourney are a point sink, but seeing the tourney rule about expensive units, maybe some can came).
It seems well rounded for MEQ/elite based armies otherwise (which I bet you are likely to face).

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: 1000 points-no kill like overkill

Post#3 » Apr 16 2014 11:01

I'd recommend swapping one of the commanders fusions for a CIB. The range band matches, but it gives you so many more options without sacrificing too much of your anti-vehicle punch. (In fact, with the PEN, its even scarier against light vehicles, for the simple fact you could possibly get hits on multiple cans with re-rolls to pen if the opponent isnt careful. The CIB would help keep the commanders shooting relevant against targets without an AV statline, and it alleviates your otherwise obvious weakness against hoard armies.

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boomwolf
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Re: 1000 points-no kill like overkill

Post#4 » Apr 18 2014 04:24

Boomwolf returning with an after-battle report.

After 3 rounds in the games, against 3 very different lists, I present you the following results.

First of all, the scoring method for each game was:
4 points for winning the mission.
1 point for surviving warlord.
1 point for having most expensive unit survive at half strength.
1 point for linebraker with a unit at least on half strength/undamaged tank.
1 point for the opponent controlling no table quarters.
1 point for having none of your units destroyed/running/out of the board by the end of the game. (nobody scored it, at all.)
Quite an odd method, as a loss meant usually 0 points in theory (and indeed it did every game), yet a victory usually assured 6+


My opponents where the following 3:

game one-Crusade against Astra Militia with a knight lancer, 3 vet squdas (one chimera) and a CCS in a vendata.
After a good seize on my part, a well-coordinated deepstike of ralai, the fusionmander and the missile suits all at turn 2 (though fusion missed his mark by enough to be non-threat), some terrain abuse to avoid the knight (riptide used a build-in skyshield to avoid reach, commander took hiding on top of a depleted bastion that was also on the table) and some decent shooting, the knight fell down, while the troops around him got shredded each time by the commandeered bastion, and whoever faced the ion shield each turn.
The warlord trait of "predetor of the skys", usually useless, also came into effect quite well, allowing the commander to take out the vendata of the unsuspecting opposition right off the sky, killing most of the CCS in the crash, all from the safty of the local depleted bastion, whiping out the enemy by turn 6, while having left the unhard riptide, unharmed commander, both tetras and a pair of fire warriors.
Game ended 8-0 in my favor

Game two-BGNT, against nid flying circus, with two flyarants and two crones backed by a pair of zoans and handful of temegaunts. (effectifly crusade again as none of us had HS) after some back-and-forth shooting, and no less then 3 different units getting pyroxisem (or how you call the power that lower enemy BS and WS) I was taking a heavy beating. he got first turn, but didnt kill more then a hanful of warriors and a tetra, while I gibed a crone, then some devious vector strikes to outside of the table on the enemy side on turn 2 that took a heavy toll on my forces, my army somehow failing to kill 2 zoans and 10 gaunts somehow that turn (all he had on the table), and all 3 FMC coming right back, my army crumbled and it ended with my being whiped out on turn 6, with both crones dead, and both flyrants on a single wound, but not much damage to the zoans or gaunts.
8-0 in favor of the nids.
Though this game left a bitter taste, as I KNOW my commander SHOULD be allowed to join the riptide, but the other player claimed he cannot, and with no FAQ available to prove him wrong, I was not allowed to do so, something that would have netted an almost assured victory.

Game three-Purge, against a necron army featuring a tezzract vault (sky of falling stars and seismic assault), an annialation barge, a small group of warriors and small group of immortals, all led by illuminator searez.
Turn 1 started uneventful, with my forced moving up to his corner-castle, and he baslting a few holes in my fire warriors, and a tetra, turn 2 had a good deepstike of the fusion right next to the valut, the riptide and ralai both getting in range and a hail of fire, resulting 1 HP from the fusion, and 2 from ralai.
Turn 3 got intresting, as ralai got crushed by the falling stars, yet the seismic assault utterly failing to hurt the riptide, only for the annibarge to land 2 wounds through all his layers of defense, yet in retaliation the commander joined up to the riptide (who failed his nova), and did a whooping 6 HP to the vault, blowing it up. was he not attached to the tide, he would have been IDed from the blast. (lucky me, i thought I'll join them for the PEN and never though of the blast, or that I failed nova anyway)
Some back and forthers later, and a few unlucky saves and the necron forces were taken out turn 5 with my remaining forces being a 1 wound riptide, a tetra and a pair of fire warriors.
7-0 for the greater good here.

Overall it went quite well, and with a better roll of the dice, and being allowed to actually use my list in its full potential (see game two) might have led to overall victory.
I'd say it worked out well, and bringing superunits was common and quite amusing, leading to spectacular turns and some nail-biting moment.
The nid player later claimed the victory in 40k, but lost in final score to a fantasy player. (they ran their own games under the same scoring method)

Some amusing thing that came up though, every single game, across the tables, ended in late total annihilation with the winner usually quite beat up, no matter the matchups. signs of a good game?

Lessons I have learned:

1) Assess the terrain and how you can use it to your advantage, it won me game 1.
2) Super-heavies, while they cause the game to pivot around them, are not a bad thing-they are fair and fun to play against. it really is just a handful that are OP.
3) Make sure you have the FAQs handy, you can never know when you have to prove something.
4) Even the best units get bad rolls at times, have a backup plan.
5) Warlord traits, while often useless, and sometimes game-changing, do well to remember what you got, and search a way to take advantage of it-as the opponent is also likely to forget them.
6) Underestimate nothing. even a codex the internet calls "weak" can be a terror in the hands of a skilled player with a matching play style.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
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Posts: 1097

Re: 1000 points-no kill like overkill-now with results

Post#5 » Apr 18 2014 05:14

Nice review of your games and happy to see you hold the line.
(Your clear victories are against opponents you are designed for)

As you said, the point given are very "vae victis".

boomwolf wrote:Though this game left a bitter taste, as I KNOW my commander SHOULD be allowed to join the riptide, but the other player claimed he cannot, and with no FAQ available to prove him wrong, I was not allowed to do so, something that would have netted an almost assured victory.

Strange, since before our codex, the only army that can have 1+ MC units that can be joined by IC are Nids... (Prime/Prince with Carnifex). :-?
And it needs no FAQ since it's in the BRB (in the IC rule). If your opponent claims it was FAQed it's to him to show the FAQ.

Going first with few units on table, I hope you put all your people here to counter.
Too bad you have no luck at removing the Zoo and gants to have instant victory. I faced the same problem with Ogryns + commissar before a full IG plattoon came from reserves.

About your lessons:
- An important thing too is training with various terrains density: playstyles and armies behave very diffferently on tables with few terrains than terrains with a lot of them. Better to know before if the table you will play are usually dense or not...
- Superheavies may be fun to play against, but if you are not prepared to scratch them, you loose. The attrition method (removing scoring units instead of focusing on the hitters) is very difficult to play now, because these heavy hitters can blast all your army single handedly (before, it need a bunch of units to do the same job).
-Damn FAQ ! Some gets online on BL site, but not all. I printed mines.
- Backup plan: Tau excels in them, because our units can have multiple purposes.
- Warlord traits: Too bad you cannot choose the one you get and rely on lucky charms.
- "Weak" codices: Skills and luck are the two major factor in 40K. I assume weakness has a 10% impact on the fate of game, because playtests ensure that a codex isn't so blatantly under/overpowered that skills and luck cannot overcome the odds.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1769

Re: 1000 points-no kill like overkill-now with results

Post#6 » Apr 18 2014 05:32

Kael'yn wrote:
boomwolf wrote:Though this game left a bitter taste, as I KNOW my commander SHOULD be allowed to join the riptide, but the other player claimed he cannot, and with no FAQ available to prove him wrong, I was not allowed to do so, something that would have netted an almost assured victory.

Strange, since before our codex, the only army that can have 1+ MC units that can be joined by IC are Nids... (Prime/Prince with Carnifex). :-?
And it needs no FAQ since it's in the BRB (in the IC rule). If your opponent claims it was FAQed it's to him to show the FAQ.


His claim was that because the riptide wants at any point a squad, he was not an eligible unit to join, so the fact he COULD have been was not enough, but only if at some point he HAD a drone would it trigger.
Without definitive proof I could not prove him wrong, and our judge was more into "forbidden unless stated different" rather then "allowed unless forbidden" mindset.
Honestly I cant even see how it CAN be debated its wrong, nor am I 100% sure he actually believed what he said.

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