1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

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Reaper501
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1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#1 » Apr 18 2014 12:16

Hi everyone!

As some may have seen in my intro post, I participate in my local GT almost every year. It is a little different than previous years, as it is 1850 this time rather than 2000(or 1999+1). A few other restrictions include the banning of the following models; Fortress of Redemption, Escalations, Forge world, Formations, and Sky Shield. Also, Stronghold Assault(not really sure what this is exactly other than it includes Imperial Knights?) is allowed but; No D weapons, No AV14 and "Only one item may be taken".

Now onto my list. This is a general outline of things I REALLY would like to include, it rounds out to 1312pts. I would like it to be a fairly competitive list, while still remaining fluffy and fun.

HQ
Commander @ 135pts
Command n Control Node, Multi-Specturm, PEN Chip
Goes with Riptide

Elites
Riptide @ 240pts
Ion Accelerator, Stims, Fusion Blasters, Velocity Tracker

Crisis Team @ 188pts
3 Suits
1 w/ TL Missiles, Drone Controller, x2 Marker Droens
2 w/ TL Missiles, Reg Missile

Troops
Fire Warriors @ 108pts
12 Models

Fire Warriors @ 108pts
12 Models

Fire Warriors @ 108pts
10 Models

Fast Attack
Pathfinder Team @ 77pts
7 Models

Pathfinder Team @ 77pts
7 Models

Heavy Support
Sniper Drone Team @ 159pts
3 Marksman, 8 Drones

Broadside Team @ 130pts
2 Models w/ HY Missiles, Smart Missiles




These are the things I think would be best to have, and are auto includes for me.

Other than the models listed, I have available:
1 Ethereal
10 Fire Warriors(And a few extra for a fireblade or darkstrider)
Some pathfinders w/ Ion Rifles
2 Crisis Suits
6 Stealth Suits
2 Devilfish
~ 36-40 Kroot Carnivores
1 Skyray
1 Hammerhead w/ Railgun


The Skyray vs Hammerhead is one of the big questions for me. I have been running the Skyray for anti-air as well as further Marker support and Anti-Light Transport, however with the release of the new "IG" codex, I'm expecting there to be quite a few heavy mech lists. My GT tends to showcase the new hotness, not always, but it is best to plan for it IMO.

Another big question is the kitting out of my commander. While the support commander is a nasty combo with the riptide, it just doesn't seem to fit in with how a commander would act in battle. He is a commander though, and with his current load out he is basically overseeing the riptide.

And finally, this list seems to me to really promote static gunline, which is a great tactic, but your deployment/strategy won't vary much from game to game. If I'm going to be playing 5 2hr games, I would like them to differ somewhat from game to game. I'm just not sure what to do with it in order to achieve that but remain somewhat competitive.

Some other things I usually run in my other lists are 2 Fusion suits(2 TL Blasters and a Plasma Rifle) and another squad of 10 Fire Warriors. I've switched around between the 2nd crisis squad and stealth suits, as stealth suits have become really fun to play with I think.


All feedback is greatly appreciated.

Rawrgyle
Shas
Posts: 67

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#2 » Apr 19 2014 01:35

I'm having problems trying to come up with a direction to send you in, as everything just points to a more static list. So, I'm posting my list that I am using tomarrow, err... rather today now (I SHOULD BE IN BED DAMNIT). It is a local tourny, but I don't think I can "optimize" this list any more.

Empire
Commander C&C, M3S, Pen chip, drone control, Irid armor, neuroweb

Riptide Ion, TwL plasma, EWO

Kroot x10, hound x1
Kroot x10, hound x1
Kroot x10

Pathfinder x6

SkyRay SMS, BSF
SkyRay SMS, BSF
SDT x2 marksmen, x9 Sniper Drones

Enclave
Ethereal

Riptide HBC, TwL fusion, VT, EWO, ECPA, Tailsman of A.M.

Crisis x3 (MP, MP, TL), Bonded, x6 Marker drones

Broadsides x3 (HYMP, SMS), Bonded, TL x2/EWO x1, x6 Missile Drones


Now, there are a couple of static points here, the broadsides of course, and the SDT (mostly) that I tend to use as a pivot point for the rest of the army. Tau scoring is weak, even with crisis suits on the enclave side, it is something we have to deal with. But If I were to go the firewarrior route I would bring tons of them, and almost all of my lists are using at least one kroot squad for outflanking to points. And going firewarriors tends to lead to very static lists.

Pathfinders die easy, Basicly just as easy as kroot or orcs. 5+ armor just doesn't cut it against anything that I tend to play against. Two teams of 7 aren't bad, but in the above list I have markerlights spread out pretty good and will often use my 6 man team as bait. Put them away from my army where my opponent can "waste" time going after them or ignore them and then they can do thier job. Doesn't always work but /meh. Anyways I am a firm believer in skyrays for some longer lasting markerlights and drones. Your commander is almsot there and you have the deathrain team, throw in some drones and use that tactic. BS5 and twin linked = markerlights!

Also run the skyray for the skyfire and take it off the Iontide, unless you switch to the HBC.

This is a copy paste I keep around that I wrote a long time ago somewhere about it:
BS3 options with skyfire: AV12 (before Jink)

Iontide = str7 AP2 x3 = 1.5 hits, .5 HP lost
broadisde = str7 AP4 x4 = 3 hits, 1 HP lost
MP/MP crisis suit = str7 ap4 x4 = 2 hits, 2/3 HP lost
Skyray = awesomesauce
BurstTide (regular) str6 ap4 x8 = 4 hits 2/3 HP lost
BurstTide (nova) str6 ap4 x12= 6 hits, 1 PEN
Quad gun str7 AP4 x4 = 3hits, 1HP lost

BS 5 Quad gun = 4hits (*assuming), 1 and 1/3rd HP lost

just saying Aun'Va is saddened everytime a commander puts skyfire on a iontide. They are much better suited to anti infantry roles. EWO = good great, don't deepstrike terminators anywhere I can see them, VT = not a good choice on them, compared to any other option listed. Note the broadside up there is just a single broadside.

broadside x3 without skyfire: 12 shots = 3 and 2/3 hits, 1.22222whatever fraction that is, of a HP lost.

STILL BETTER THAN AN IONTIDE.

just saying

EDIT: Also you can get into the psycology of forceing your opponent to Jink and just look at the number of hits. Once again the iontide is not that great IF we look at more hits = more likely to cause a jink.


EDIT:

Forgot to mention that your commander doesn't have to babysit the riptide. Diversify your markerlights and it doesn't take much to make that riptide not dependant on him. I sometimes start the commander off with my iontide, and hope he doesn't fail his nova charge, but MOST often the commander is running with the deathrain markerlight team to start off my shooting.

Put out your markerlight hits on a priority target, while the deathrains either take pot shots or focus in on transports. Once a transport is blown up, an alternate markerlight team is used to light up the infantry that came out of it, and the riptide blows them up.

Basicly, I don't want my 200 ish point MC blowing up rhinos. I may use a 200 point crisis unit to do that, but it is hitting multiple targets, not just one big nuke.

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#3 » Apr 21 2014 09:20

Thanks for the reply. I guess what I was looking for was if there were any different load outs or squad compositions, or different units to include to make my list not so static. Or, just optimization on my current list.

I hear what you're saying about the commander, it would be nice to have him actually contributing besides just sitting with the riptide the whole game. The main reason I don't give him drones, is without the riptide having drones, when the commander is with him, the whole unit(including the riptide) become T4 due to majority toughness.

Maybe what I'll try is running the commander with markers, and only put him with the riptide if there is something that really needs to die, or when his drones are gone.



As for the skyray, I do usually run it for skyfire/Marker support, I was just wondering if I should include a Hammerhead instead to combat new IG armor lines.

I was only able to glance over the post, but I will be sure to read into it more in depth, these are just some of the things that stood out to me off the bat.
-- Reaper501

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samuraioshovah
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Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#4 » Apr 21 2014 11:20

What I am noticing for a lot of 1850 GT Lists, if you give your opponent more armor (Tanks) than they have squads to shoot up they can fall apart.

Code: Select all

Sample of My List:

Elites:
1 Riptide (I never usually need 2) They waste enough firepower at 1.

Troops:
2 12 Man FW teams with Warfish

Fast Attack:
1 8 Man Pathfinder Team & a 6 Man team or two 7 Man Teams

Heavy:

1 Rail Head with SMS
1 Ion Head with SMS
1 Skyray (Additional Markerlight Support)



I like your list. My Commander is usually 3 weapons + Iridium. But again run your list the way you like and make adjustments.
Mobile Armor Division...71-12-11 2014 Season 14-4-3

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#5 » Apr 21 2014 02:05

samuraioshovah wrote:What I am noticing for a lot of 1850 GT Lists, if you give your opponent more armor (Tanks) than they have squads to shoot up they can fall apart.


Could you clarify, From you list, are you saying that more armor is a good idea?

Or was this in relation to IG bringing loads of armor and my list possibly not being able to handle it?
-- Reaper501

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samuraioshovah
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Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#6 » Apr 21 2014 02:14

Having at least 3 Tanks (1 Heavy & 2 Warfish) makes it hard for slaughter armies (High Volumes of Fire to eat suits and infantry) to deal with.

Example:

Most IG players in my area have Autocannon heavy weapons teams and Punisher cannons. Those lists are designed to chew up infantry. Str 6 needs 6 to hurt Devilfish and they can't dent Hammerheads on average rolls. I am saying your list is pretty solid. Just give it some more teeth based on your play style.

Also having Transports for Troops gives them cover from high volume. It gives them something to hide behind when they go for objectives.

Tournaments in highly competitive areas always lead to heavy handed munchkin mindset. Tanks in your list will give you fire magnets while still letting you play how you want!
Mobile Armor Division...71-12-11 2014 Season 14-4-3

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#7 » Apr 21 2014 02:32

Gotcha. Yeah, I checked out the mobile turtle tactic: Having firewarriors move behind a fish 6" at a time, fish flats out, warriors fire repeat.

I just have to maneuver points around to allow for some fish.

Would dropping one squad of pathfinders(almost a whole devilfish) be a wise move? If i throw markers with my commander, thats 2 more BS5 markers.

If I did take the skyray(for skyfire/markers) over the railhead, would Fusion suits be my best bet for AT. Or would S8/7 be decent enough to take out armor that really needs taking out.

More often than not I find myself just focusing on troops and ignoring armor, unless they unleash some nasty templates. If my enemy doesn't have any troops, he can't score.
-- Reaper501

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samuraioshovah
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Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#8 » Apr 21 2014 04:12

Ughhh....never lose Pathfinders.

It look at it like this, KROOT are awesome, fun, and definitely decisive if and only there are TREES. Otherwise I swap out for Fire Warriors. In our current codex my only reason for Kroot was removed, STR 4 down to STR 3.

My Recommendation is play with your list with this idea:

2 Minimum Squads of Pathfinders : 88pts.
1 Skyray with Disruption Pod: 130 pts.

This alone is a game Changer. You start off with 10 Markerlights. You could literally bury all 6 missiles in one Target Turn 1. Especially when facing Marine Players or Necrons, this will change their mind about your force off the top.
Mobile Armor Division...71-12-11 2014 Season 14-4-3

Rawrgyle
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Posts: 67

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#9 » Apr 22 2014 08:45

My tip is opposite above... do loose the pathfinders. They are the first things dead in your army, every game. 2 squads of 4 are just wasted points, that MAY help you if you get first turn, otherwise BAM dead. Or you have to hide them out of LOS, which means that they don't help as they have to snap fire if you move them. just not worth it.

Markerlight drones with drone controllers are your best and most reliable source for lights the whole game. JsJ with a deathrain team, or a commander with them by himself, doesn't matter, use the setup one game and you'll never regret it.

Also Kroot friggen rock. They die by the thousands sometimes, but honestly are way way way more flexable in deployment options than firewarriors, and sniper rifles!!!! Funny having my 70 point "nothing" troop choice take out MCs three times thier cost.

Edit -- and without outflanking you effectively start getting half the number of troops on the table. BECAUSE you HAVE to buy transports to even have a chance of scoring objectives without the outflanking kroot.

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Paintee
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Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#10 » Apr 22 2014 02:21

Add a couple of units of Kroots, as they are effective, and maybe some more heavy weapons and elites? I don't know. Also more fire warriors, and support for them, otherwise they go :dead: and you want them to go :biggrin: and :fear:
What is this "Me-lee" you speak of?

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#11 » Apr 22 2014 03:34

I used to run a commander with 2 marker drones until I started trying the Support'O commander.

I will probably try a few more games with pathfinders, maybe one less squad as a compromise between the two suggestions, as they usually are the last things to be shot at around here. Why I have no idea, but there ya go.

Here is a modified list with more markers and kroot instead of the support'O. To much of a compromise for no skyfire, or should I rely on markers hitting to increase BS?

I will post another one up later with what I think would work for a more mobile list(kroot and transports).

HQ
Commander @ 182pts
CNC Node, Controller, TL MPs, Single MP, PEN chip, 2x Marker Drones

Ethereal

Elites
Riptide @ 220pts
Ion, Fusion, Stims

Crisis Team @ 188pts
3 Suits
1 w/ TL Missiles, Drone Controller, x2 Marker Droens
2 w/ TL Missiles, Reg Missile

Crisis Team @ 114pts
2 w/ TL Fusion and Single Plasma

Troops
Fire Warriors @ 100pts
10 Models w/ Bonding Knives

Fire Warriors @ 100pts
10 Models w/ Bonding Knives

Fire Warriors @ 100pts
10 Models w/ Bonding Knives

Fire Warriors @ 100pts
10 Models w/ Bonding Knives

Kroot Carnivores @ 98pts
14 Kroot w/ Sniper Rounds

Kroot Carnivores @ 98pts
14 Kroot w/ Sniper Rounds

Fast Attack
Pathfinders @ 88pts
8 Models

Heavy Support
Skyray @ 131pts
SMS, Disruption, BSF

Sniper Team @ 144pts
3 Marksman
7 Drones

Broadside Team @ 130pts
2 Models w/ HYMP, SMS

Total: 1843pts
-- Reaper501

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#12 » Apr 23 2014 09:46

And here is my take on what a mobile list should look like. Kroot were a must, stealth suits seemed like a good fit. I might be worried the AT is to light. Have seekers, some fusion, and a few missile pods :/. I really like the sniper drone team, but I may have to switch it out for a rail/ion head?

Shadowsun goes with Stealth Team(obviously)

Darkstrider goes with a warfish team(can make the transport outflank?)

HQ
Commander Shadowsun(to be named later) @ 135pts
x2 Fusion, Advanced Targetting

Drakstrider
Carbine, Markerlight, BSF

Elites
Riptide @ 220pts
Ion, Fusion, Stims

Crisis Team @ 131pts
2 Suits
1 w/ TL Missiles, Drone Controller, x2 Marker Droens
1 w/ TL Missiles, Reg Missile

Stealth Team @ 114pts
2x Burst Cannon, 2x Fusion

Troops
Fire Warriors @ 195pts
10 Models
Devilfish w/ SMS, Disruption Pod

Fire Warriors @ 195pts
10 Models
Devilfish w/ SMS, Disruption Pod

Fire Warriors @ 99pts
11 Models

Fire Warriors @ 99pts
11 Models

Kroot Carnivores @ 91pts
13 Kroot w/ Sniper Rounds

Kroot Carnivores @ 91pts
13 Kroot w/ Sniper Rounds

Fast Attack
Pathfinders @ 88pts
8 Models

Heavy Support
Skyray @ 131pts
SMS, Disruption, BSF

Sniper Team @ 144pts
3 Marksman
7 Drones

Total: 1850pts
-- Reaper501

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#13 » Apr 23 2014 02:29

I got a chance to test both of these lists, and one of my fellow 40kers pointed out a few things.

One, was the abundance of ignores cover, and that disruption pods/stealth were sort of a bad investment, and similarly Devilfish.
-- Is it really that bad of an investment? Also, the skyrays, even without their missiles are still 2 skyfire BS 4 markers, and 4 Homing S5 AP5 shots.

Another thing was possibly a second skyray, or 3rd missilside in my gunline list for more AT instead of snipers.
-- While not necessarily good for tanks, snipers would be good for anti MC, but again, with new IG coming out, tanks are always at the back of my mind.

Finally, a squad of Marker Drones instead of drones attached to crisis squads, with the commander in it for meat shield/BS 5 markers.
-- I'm interested in the drone squad, the only thing would be all of them being at one unit.


Thoughts?
-- Reaper501

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timb6ea
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Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#14 » Apr 23 2014 11:27

Reaper501 wrote:Darkstrider goes with a warfish team(can make the transport outflank?)
Yes so long as he and the squad it was bought for are deployed inside of it.

Reaper501 wrote:One, was the abundance of ignores cover, and that disruption pods/stealth were sort of a bad investment, and similarly Devilfish.
-- Is it really that bad of an investment?
This argument can be made about a number of things. If your opponent is prepared for it he can ruin your plan. If he's not prepared for it you ruin his plan. At that point it's a numbers game. If he buys the counter for a unit or option you are not using then he has wasted points. If he knows you're not bringing that unit or option he can choose to spend those points in other areas. I'm of the opinion devilfish are worthwhile and D-Pods are worthwhile if your meta is not saturated with Ignores Cover.
Will Flak'O for food.

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Reaper501
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Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#15 » Apr 24 2014 02:27

That's sort of what I was thinking. Generally speaking, everything you take is a gamble. This is partly why I focus more on fun lists, than competitive ones. While I still like my lists to hold their own, cheese is not among the things I enjoy.

If there are any other suggestions or improvements people think can be made, feel free to shout them out.
-- Reaper501

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#16 » Apr 25 2014 02:07

So approximately what is the ideal number of markerlights?

Right now, in my current hammer-anvil mobile list(my mobile list I posted, except with broadsides, another missile suit, and one less fire warrior squad), I have 14 markerlights. 2 from skyray, 7 from pathfinders, and 2 from sniper spotters.
-- Reaper501

Rawrgyle
Shas
Posts: 67

Re: 1850pt GT List---Not sure where to take it

Post#17 » Apr 26 2014 04:20

The right number of markerlights is something very hard to judge.

In an all tau list I would try to basicly look at getting 2 groups of about 4 hits... but this can still vary.

Examples might be the better choice here to convey what I am trying to say. Lets say I am running my 1750 Biker Tau list. My tau units are:

Commander with Pod suits and marker drones = my only unit for markerlight sources = about 5 hits
Riptide
Broadsides
Kroot -snipers

Only really two things I want to use my marker lights there are the broadsides and the riptide, but what I am hitting with markerlights is a must die, so it doesn't matter which one I use or if I have extra lights... high priority target gets the big markerlight "bomb".

Now, when you look at my 1850 list above, there are many sources of markerlights and many potential units that can use them. And there are times when I feel I have way too many markerlights in that list, but it helps in those games where it is still close in turn 4-5 and my units that are left are really putting out every last bit of hurt they can.

But the way it is set up should help here. I have the markerlight "bomb" in both the crisis squad, and to a lesser extent the pathfinders. The skyrays can both not only hit air targets but help out with adding in a few hits if the crisis or pathfinders got bad rolls or have taken casulties, and I have that high priority thing that needs to die. OR, can even combine to light up a third target.

Leaving the SDT for last as when you don't have target locks the extra markerlights that that squad adds are really meant to help another unit finish off whatever it shot at. So maybe I have a skyray shoot a tyranid MC to get two hits, then the snipers use that to ignore its cover (building or something) but probably add in 2 more lights for broadsides to then get in a few more wounds.

The point though is that for every "bomb" I'm wanting more than one unit to be able to shoot the target I want to kill. Even if they don't have to or have markerlights left to use. Pathfinders light up target A, crisis team shoots target A while target B gets lit up, but hopefully with commander doesn't have to use many markerlights, so riptide 1 can finish off A, riptide 2 can then shoot B, and broadsides can then target lock pick and choose what to fire at then. Shooting priority can get silly with that list heh.

But all this really depends on the list. having 4 hits on two targets tends to be a nice "sweet spot" that is good to aim for, with a little bit of extra floating around helps. but if you don't have the units to use them up either it doesn't help.

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