Fast Attack choosing

Cadres who fought and bled under 6th edition rules.
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TheCoolShark900
Shas
Posts: 18

Fast Attack choosing

Post#1 » Apr 24 2014 11:29

hello this is my first post very sorry if it is bad,
I am eventually going to field a battlesuit list but we don't have any battlesuits in fast attack. I do not want vespid as the cadre will be no auxillaries!

what should I field?

oh and by the way I have 4 pathfinders and a Pirahna I really like pirahna units but what would be good to field

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TheCoolShark900
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Posts: 18

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#2 » Apr 24 2014 11:33

sorry i forgot should one slot be a flyer?

If so Razorshark or Sun Shark :?

I will not be using Forge World models as my friends don't like them because we do not have any rules for them

Thanks :D :smile: ;)
Big Guns Never Tire???
"Longstrike, wake up"

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SignLanguageBob
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Posts: 12

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#3 » Apr 24 2014 11:45

What models do you actually own? How long have you been playing the game? What has worked for you so far regarding you style of play? Does you fast attack slot need you to take on other flyers, anti tank, or anti infantry? How big are the games that you play? What are the load out in your all battlesuit army? Are they geared for anti space marines but lacking that anti armour punch?

Forgive me if I seem a bit off with my post but I personally don't think there enough info for me to give you an honest answer. Sure we all have our own play style and I could just say "pick that unit because I say it's the best" but you could easly look that up on the Internet. The more information and effort you put into the post the more we at ATT can help.

Hope you see what I'm trying to say without sounding like I'm having a moan. If I'm in the wrong in what I've said then I hold my hand up but these posts are become really common on here now and it just seems a bit pointless for something that could be looked up on ATT search bar or on the Internet itself.

Looking forward to hearing about what you own in the army and what your playstyle is.

Kind regards

BSL Bob

Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#4 » Apr 24 2014 01:15

If you even need fast attack(don't necessarily), and if you want to keep with a theme, I would choose a vehicle of some kind. Piranha or a flyer.

Armored vehicles goes well with battlesuits, makes more sense than all these suits and random unprotected pathfinders.

As for which, It depends on what you want them to accomplish and what the rest of your list is comprised of.
-- Reaper501

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El'mo
Shas'El
Shas'El
Posts: 1539

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#5 » Apr 24 2014 03:48

TheCoolShark900, "build my list for me" posts are discouraged here at ATT because they really don't add anything to the think tank culture we are trying to cultivate.

As it stands your post is lacking substance. With Advanced Tau Tactica's apprehensive history towards Army List posts, we expect more detail and explanation to allow in-depth critique that is specific to your own context. Please expand upon:
- The intent (goal) of your army list,
- The method with which you intend to achieve your intent.
- Your reasons for making each unit choice.
- Any preferences or limitations for how you could alter your list.

Doing these things will allow members to critique you without risk of making suggestions which are moot for reasons you did not share, as well as increasing the value of the criticism you receive.

Please make sure to read through all of the Stickies and Announcements in the Cadre Building Section before revising your post.
Cadre Building Best Practice,
A Guide to List-Building,
How To Post An Army List,
List Style Guide.

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TheCoolShark900
Shas
Posts: 18

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#6 » Apr 25 2014 09:43

Ok so after reading through I am trying to have some anti tank and some anti light infantry as I will not be getting many shots with the crisis loadouts (double plasma)

As for points I will build a list and then each battle depending on points choose which units to take and which to not

Finally, I am asking what I should take, and based on all the opinions and my own will help me decide but I will probably not go exactly as people suggest and change their ideas slightly and ideas will probably be taken from multiple people

Thankyou for the criticism anyway, will try to improve

:D :biggrin: :(
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"Longstrike, wake up"

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timb6ea
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Posts: 485

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#7 » Apr 25 2014 11:04

TheCoolShark900 wrote:Ok so after reading through I am trying to have some anti tank and some anti light infantry as I will not be getting many shots with the crisis loadouts (double plasma)
With that information your best bet IMO will be a fusion Piranha squadron. There are other options which fill the need but none as well. It's dirt cheap, split the drones off and use them as an upgraded firewarrior team and tank hunt with the pirhana. Possibly add seekers for additional early game firepower and range. Once the tank threat is ended use any remaining pirhana for screening your troops and area control. Recommend multiple Pirhana in the squadron to be effective in both roles.
Will Flak'O for food.

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Reaper501
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#8 » Apr 25 2014 11:08

timb6ea wrote:
TheCoolShark900 wrote:Ok so after reading through I am trying to have some anti tank and some anti light infantry as I will not be getting many shots with the crisis loadouts (double plasma)
With that information your best bet IMO will be a fusion Piranha squadron. There are other options which fill the need but none as well. It's dirt cheap, split the drones off and use them as an upgraded firewarrior team and tank hunt with the pirhana. Possibly add seekers for additional early game firepower and range. Once the tank threat is ended use any remaining pirhana for screening your troops and area control. Recommend multiple Pirhana in the squadron to be effective in both roles.


+1 This


Piranhas fill the anti-tank roll you desire, while also keeping with armored theme.
-- Reaper501

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1081

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#9 » Apr 25 2014 11:33

As timb6ea said, you'better goes with 3-5 pirhanas with fusion blaster if you really need AT. You have then two units in one: a 10xgun drone unit and 5xfast moving fusion blaster

In a nutshell about the Fast attack choice of the vanilla codex (my opinions):
- Pathfinder : Rating=Good
Static markerlight source (many token for not too expensives), but need protection
They can also be kitted with special weapons and with the Scout rule, deliver some heavy fire when they came on board (scout move or outflank)
Their drone (and devilfish associated) can help reserves to come where they are needed but for a heavy price.

-Vespids : Rating=Situationnal
Fast and mobile moving MEQ hunters. Not cheap and need attention to do their job correctly.

-Gun Drones squadron : Rating=Poor
Look at the FW with pulse carbines if you really need assault guns (they can have EMP too).
Drones are resilient and easier to hide thanks to assault move, but they are too pricey for the job.
May have an interest with a Buffmander (commander with DC and other wargear)

-Shield Drones squadron : Rating=???
Who has ever used it ?

-Marker Drones squadron : Rating=Good or Situationnal
Good if you can afford a commander with a DC to buff them to a massive load of ML tokens dealers
Situationnal without commander (they survive more than Pathfinders, can fire and move but hit less)

-Pirhanas : Rating=Excellent
For the price of near three gun drones you have two of them and a AV11/10 fast moving vehicle that can take seekers and fusion blasters. What else ?

-Sunshark : Rating=Poor
It has a networked markerlight (better on Skyray), seekers and poor bomb ability (a deepstriking crisis with dual flamers or dual BC is more efficient against the intended targets)
Its drones have interesting weapons but poor BS.

-Razorshark : Rating=Good
Its turret with choice of S8 blast and 4xS7 shots is interesting against most vehicles (flyers or not, outside of AV14 all around) or T4/4+ armies.
Big range, 360° moving on a flyer, ... Necrons quantum (on rear armor) and warriors (like eldar serpents rear and guardians) fear the ion turret.
Add another S7AP4 pod and you have an interesting sky hunter (if you don't field a Skyray and face few flyers) with two S8 shots if you need it against another flyer...

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AngryAlbatross
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Posts: 133

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#10 » Apr 25 2014 12:18

+1 to Kael'yn, that is a great summary of the available units. I think gun drone squadrons should be put as situational instead of poor. They can be great blockers and nuisances, but you are usually better just getting piranhas and detaching or getting drones from other vehicles.

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TheCoolShark900
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Posts: 18

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#11 » Apr 25 2014 12:24

Thanks for the advice!

I think I will do Two units of 5 pirahnas and a Razorshark

Is this a good idea?

Thanks

:D :biggrin: :) :smile: ;) :P :dead: :fear:
Big Guns Never Tire???
"Longstrike, wake up"

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AngryAlbatross
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Posts: 133

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#12 » Apr 25 2014 12:41

Its up to you and your play style! ;)

Yes those units can really throw out some firepower, but thats not always what you need. Sometimes you need to outflank to put your opponent off balance (pathfinders), sometimes you need air support (razorshark), sometimes you need cheap tank killing (piranhas or ion-finders).

The best way to know if its a good idea is to make sure your not already fulfilling the role these units fill somewhere else in your army (don't really need fusion piranhas if you have fusion crisis suits) and then to try it out on the battlefield. The greatest thing about this newish codex is every idea can be a good idea. Every unit has a purpose and is good at it. Other than trying to charge across the field and assault the enemy with a horde of kroot there's really not a way you can make a bad unit choice with Tau. (though infiltrating a horde of kroot for sniping is a good idea)

:biggrin:

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TheCoolShark900
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Posts: 18

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#13 » Apr 26 2014 02:48

Thanks AngryAlbatross

I think I will do as I said above as this fits with my theme

P.s Does anyone know if you are playing Farsight Enclaves you can have Tau Empire in your allied detachment? :P
Big Guns Never Tire???
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boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#14 » Apr 26 2014 03:39

Yes, as battle brothers, its mentioned in the enclaves rules in some god-forsaken place.

Anyway, I do not agree with Kael'yn about the razorshark, I think he's pretty poor.

Nil_Sanity
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#15 » Apr 26 2014 04:23

What about considering a forgeworld barracuda? Obviously your gaming group will need to approve, but it has an ion cannon (better than the quad ion turret as it can MEQ hunt when overcharged), it's BS4 and has two 360 degree burst cannon turrets.

On another note I agree with taking large quantaties of piranhas, they are awesome.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Posts: 763

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#16 » Apr 26 2014 12:46

Kael'yn wrote:
-Sunshark : Rating=Poor
It has a networked markerlight (better on Skyray), seekers and poor bomb ability (a deepstriking crisis with dual flamers or dual BC is more efficient against the intended targets)
Its drones have interesting weapons but poor BS.



I have a different view on the interceptor drones; they are awesome.

The nearest comparable alternative would be ion rifle pathfinders but the drones are superior in pretty much every way providing you detach them immediately. Never[1] leave them on that vulnerable flyer platform where they die too easily.

The key thing here is that their ion rifles are twin linked, which means that they hit pretty much everything better than a normal BS3 shot - and when firing blasts I would always much rather have twin-linked than an additional point of BS even if the weapon did not have Gets Hot. On top of this they have interceptor and skyfire and are even more mobile than normal jet pack infantry. Unlike other drones they are really too good for their T4/4+ save and make an attractive target, it is just as well that they can deploy without scatter and being a small JSJ unit can usually hide.

I notice you did not mention the missile pod on the bomber, to be honest I would usually regard this as the flyer's primary weapon rather than the bomb or the markerlight.

The bomber itself is meh, I would consider it situational. The interceptor drones are fast moving, hard-hitting all-round excellence.

[1] Unless your opponent spent all their points on a Lord of War, in which case your flyer is probably safe.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1081

Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#17 » Apr 26 2014 07:46

@boomwolf
Razorshark turret combined with MP (and the seekers) has well perfomed in all the games I taken it (Instakill of Nids Warriors, disabling Ark Quantum shield, knocking rear armor of Battlewagons and Leman Russ, threatening rear field Basiliks/Biovores/Manticore, ...).
For the price, it has interesting features (even if Barracuda is better for shooting as a flyer, if you can field it).
But it's my opinion. Maybe you have some input to share ?

@nic
I forget about twinlinked weapons on drones. And I already said that Interceptor drones are interesting (the better choice of our codex for ion rifles).
The problem is the cost you put to field them.
For the around the same price you can get a Skyray and an AFP on a Crisis (or a Razorshark) that behave better in more games IMHO than the Sunshark.

If I really need an unit that mimic the S7AP4 skyfire of the two drones (minus the blast), I maybe take a lone bodyguard with dual MP and velocity tracker for half the price of the Sunshark and equal resilience than the drones.

Viewing the MP as the main weapon of the Sunshark ? Why not. But it is a very expensive way to put a S7AP4 weapon on the battlefield since we already have them all around.
The only things the Sunshark has specifically (or almost for the NML) is the NML and the bomb. That's why I consider them and let aside the MP, even it have natively skyfire.

Again these are my opinions.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
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Re: Fast Attack choosing

Post#18 » Apr 26 2014 08:00

My issue with the razorshark is the fact that overall, its a mere S7AP4 source with potential S8 blasts, and we have plenty of these anyway on many platforms-especially when counting enclaves.


Sunsharks will grant it with interceptor drones who are usually more useful, crisis suits can bring it much cheaper, broadsides can too, riptides can provide AP2 shots of similar S value, etc...

The razorshark however, is not very durable. in fact SO fragile that a large number of side-hitting bolters has a decent chance to take it out. and for an expensive nit that is pretty much impossible to hide, that's an issue.

The shark is not sneaky, not durable, not hideable, and not intercepting, his main thing is the ability to hit rear of tanks, as the ability to murder warriors and the likes is nothing special in our dex.
But when you DO want to aim at the rear of tanks, the opponent simply keeps to the basic prencible, keep the rear close enough to the edge/giant building so you cannot possibly fit the razor in a way to achieve rear shots, or consider the razor's limited direction of movement to achive the same issue of him never getting to the rear facing.

He is good at capitalizing on enemy mistakes, but I much rather assume my opponent makes no mistakes and choose units who allow me to outplay and/or overpower him regardless.

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