1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Cadres who fought and bled under 6th edition rules.
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AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#1 » May 01 2014 10:33

Hey All, I just played a game last night against my Eldar nemesis and did poorly, (we called it at the bottom of turn 5 because I only had 2 crisis suits left and a stealth team and he controlled all the objectives). I think most of my performance was due to poor tactics (not used to an all battlesuit list) and running away too much/not being aggressive enough. Below is the list I used and I would like some feedback on how I can optimize it better. It was my first time trying all battlesuits (minus kroot) and trying the cascading markerlight approach. The stealth teams were nice and took some serious damage but didn't kill much, on top of that I feel like my crisis teams could be outfitted better, maybe switch my commanders squad to all missiles and give the missile squads some plasma? The kroot were great bullet sponges and distractions, they even managed to take 3 wounds off of the enemy Wraithknight netting me first blood! I am also thinking about trying to fit an ionhead in the list if I can fit it somewhere. Any suggestions are welcome!

+++ Enclaves Infiltration List (1848pts) +++

+ No Force Org Slot + (176pts)

* XV8 Crisis Bodyguard Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Bodyguard
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Plasma rifle
* Crisis Bodyguard
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Plasma rifle
* 4x Marker Drone


+ HQ + (150pts)

* Commander
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller, 2x Plasma rifle , Stimulant injector
* Marker Drone
Markerlight




+ Elites + (434pts)

* Stealth Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* 2x Marker Drone
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'vre
Drone controller , Fusion blaster , Homing beacon, Markerlight and target lock


* Stealth Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* 2x Marker Drone
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon, Stealth battlesuit (Shrouded, Stealth)
* Stealth Shas'vre
Drone controller , Fusion blaster , Homing beacon, Markerlight and target lock


+ Troops + (1088pts)

* Kroot Carnivore Squad
Sniper rounds
* 20x Kroot


* Kroot Carnivore Squad
Sniper rounds
* 20x Kroot

* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller, 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* 3x Marker Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller, 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* 3x Marker Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* 2x Marker Drone


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Flamer , 2x Fusion blaster
* 2x Marker Drone

User avatar
jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#2 » May 02 2014 08:01

I'd be inclined to agree with you about switching up the commander's squad's armaments - missiles and markerlights have the same range, so you don't need to get quite as close. Then yeah, put plasma on one of the missile squads instead.

How much armor do you usually end up seeing? If it's a ton, then yeah, the two fusion squads are great. If not, consider maybe switching one to plasma + TL fusion (or maybe fusion + TL plasma, if you see more TEQs or MCs than tanks) instead of 2x fusion + flamer? I've batted this one around myself, and generally come to the conclusion that if I've only got one squad, I'd rather have fusion than plasma, but with two PLUS a plasma squad (and two Stealth teams to boot), I think I'd maybe try to split the difference or even opt for a second plasma squad.

Did the homing beacons on the Stealth teams come in handy? I've debated taking those myself, but I keep coming to the conclusion that I'm better off taking my chances with deep strikes and just picking my positions carefully.

You could possibly trim down the Stealth teams to two shas'ui and a shas'vre each (keeping the drones, because hey, why not?), shave some points elsewhere, and fit in an ionhead (or a Riptide with IA, which is usually harder to kill), which could definitely come in handy. That said, if you're likely to face off against squishy-troops-spam, I wouldn't shave down the Stealth squads: that many burst cannon shots will likely cause more damage than the blast, or will at least be more reliable. That said, spammy lightweights isn't exactly something the Eldar do very often (Guardians are spammable, but who ever does?)

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#3 » May 06 2014 09:32

My opponent is very good about bringing a combined arms force. Usually a fire prisim and two wave serpents or a fire prisim, falcon and wave serpent. Plus 1 blob of jetbikes with his farseer, a blob of shining spears, some dire avengers (usually he doesn't bring guardians), 2 warwalkers, 2 vipers, warp spiders (the unit I hate most in his army) and then occasionally a wraithlord or counts as wraithknight or swooping hawks. ALSO lately he has been brining 4 dark reapers which instant killed my commander in our last game due to a poor roll on his squads assault move. So I have to be able to handle a lot of targets haha.

The homing beacons usually do come in handy and I find the stealthsuits to be very survivable against all his rending weapons (especially when in cover) so I think I would like to keep them maxed, but I think I will drop the marker drones because they didn't do much in the stealth squad. My strategy usually revolves around outflanking the stealths then deep striking next to them (didn't do that this last game and it cost me the game I think cause I was retreating too fast and not pressuring my enemy).

I think my biggest problem is the crisis suit loadouts. Its hard to make them able to handle all the different targets he presents. I thought the fusion suits would be good for anti armor and anti wraithknight/wraithlord but in our last game the kroot did most of the damage to his wraithknight. I was thinking about switching up the weapon ranges and trying teams with plasma + burst cannon to deep strike behind the enemy, and fusion + missile pod teams with marker drones to hold my side of the table. If I drop the crisis commander and a kroot squad I can get an etherial (to go with the single kroot squad I have and be a good bait), Aegis + comms relay, and 2 hammerheads with Ion Cannons.

I have a counts as riptide I could swing in their as well but I feel like the 2 hammerheads is better (I like giving the riptide HBC with TL-FB, ECPA and Stims so they are almost the same amount of points.

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#4 » May 06 2014 02:56

How's he using the Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers? If they're a big threat, it seems to me that a long-range, high AP pie plate would be useful. Maybe taking a Riptide with IA, EWO, TL SMS and stims would help, then when the Spiders make their appearance, pie-plate them with AP2. Without markerlights or psyker support, scatter could be a problem, but it should get most of them often enough. You could take the ECPA in there to re-roll Gets Hot (and even the nova charge, in case you want to try to flatten a tank by catching its rear armor with an S9 Ordnance blast...) I suggest the SMS over the TL FB so that you can pelt those Jetbikes and Shining Spears without worrying about their Jink saves. Yes, they still have 3+ armor, but enough weight of dice will crack that eventually. They help against the Vypers, too.

Hammerheads are nice, but I'd prefer the Riptide against Eldar - sounds like he brings anti-tank in spades. Fire Prisms reduce other tanks to smoking ruin and so do Falcons. The Wraithlord and Wraithknight bring evil anti-tank options and if they make it into melee, even Land Raiders get ripped apart. The Riptide, on the other hand, can hold up against them, barring an unlucky Distort shot.

The Talisman of Arthas Moloch could help your Commander - the Deny assistance is cool if his Farseer is using annoying debuffs like Doom or witchfires like Eldritch Storm, but the big bonus is the 5+ invulnerable save. Maybe consider a shield drone? That seems dubious to me, but if your Commander attracts a lot of S8 fire, it might be a good call.

If you can infiltrate one of your stealth teams to get a rear-armor shot on one of the tanks, I'd pick the Fire Prism so that it doesn't blow away your Crisis suits with the focused blast. I've been surprised by how utterly mean that is, even though it won't ID them.

Personally I'd skip the Ethereal - it's good bait, but he's way too easy to kill with that Wave Serpent flying around with its cover-ignoring S7 spam. If it's packing starcannons or brightlances, those can be pretty evil too.

Depending on how he deploys, it almost seems like you might be well-served by trying to deploy second, positioning your commander and missile bodyguard squad in deep cover - with the talisman in case he gets a clean shot with a missile or brightlance while stripping cover with a malediction. Start your other Deathrain squad on the board in cover too. If there are too many targets and you usually overkill them, try adding some target locks to the deathrains.

Fusion is mostly a waste on your side of the table, unless he's deep striking the Wraithknight or somehow outflanking in a tank. The range is too short, especially considering that missiles can penetrate the front armor of all his tanks. Plasma+BC is decent on deep strike *if* you can get in a rear arc on the tanks, or if the other targets need lots of shots to bring down. Otherwise I'd send in one squad of dual-fusion suits and one of dual-plasma. Possibly replace one weapon on one of those with the cyclic ion blaster, and maybe take target locks on the dual-fusion folks. If you do that you can possibly barbecue multiple targets in one turn.

The Vypers and War Walkers bring in a ton of firepower, but they're easy to crack - just make sure you do, and quickly. Depending on how he deploys, it might pay to put more of your Crisis squads on the board so you can take the other vehicles out early, before they dice up your backfield units.

If you take the Riptide, start it on the board, out front as a fire magnet, though maybe behind the Aegis if you take it so that you can soak AP2 shots with cover until you can nova-charge the shields.

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AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#5 » May 07 2014 09:48

First of all, thanks for responding jade_angel.

He usually sits the dark reapers in the back somewhere (they have 48" range) so thats most of the board on my 6' x 4 '.

The biggest problem I have with his warp spiders is they have rending weapons and can jsj just like our suits, but only better. It's really interesting because now I know how my opponent has felt these many years of playing against my jsj suits! I really feel like I need to outflank or deep strike onto them with a couple of guys and wipe them if I can. Otherwise they will just hide behind LOS terrain (we play with a pretty decent amount of terrain).

Yea I hadn't thought about his anti-tank stuff. Those dumb war walkers can also do a jsj of sorts with their battle focus and usually have dual bright lances.

You know he really doesn't use that much offensive psychic stuff. Just mostly fortune and conceal (his warlocks often die during their checks so he barely takes them any more).

Thanks for all the good points. I think you are right about the Etherial, fusions and riptide. I suppose kroot can easily kill that wraithknight if it shows its ugly mug again. Will post a revised list around lunch and we can go back and forth on that ha.

I really need to pull out a win! I think the last few games I have lost (save one where I took 6 broadsides and a riptide and wiped him) and I am trying to find an army that can beat him but is also somewhat balanced that I could maybe take to a tournament in the summer.

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AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#6 » May 07 2014 01:13

Ok new list is up! The main idea is to hold my side with my deathrain teams, riptide and kroot behind the Aegis while the stealths either infiltrate or outflank and the plasma/burst crisis teams back them up with deep strike. Commander will join the smaller deathrain team. My only worry is that the Riptide is the only thing with great range on it, but if my enemy tries to outrange me I could just infiltrate the commander (with the stealths) and deep strike all my crisis teams.

+++ Enclaves Infiltration (1849pts) +++
+ HQ +

* Commander
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , 2x Missile pod, Stimulant injector
* Marker Drone


+ Elites +

* Stealth Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'vre
Burst cannon, Homing beacon, Positional relay, Stealth battlesuit


* Stealth Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'ui
Burst cannon
* Stealth Shas'vre
Burst cannon, Homing beacon, Positional relay, Stealth battlesuit


* XV104 Riptide
Ion accelerator, Riptide battlesuit, Riptide Shield Generator, Twin-linked smart missile system


+ Troops +

* Kroot Carnivore Squad
Sniper rounds
* 20x Kroot


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle
* Crisis Shas'ui
Burst cannon Plasma rifle


* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
2x Missile pod
* 4x Marker Drone

* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Positional relay
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* 4x Marker Drone

* XV8 Crisis Team
Bonding Knife Ritual
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, Drone controller , 2x Missile pod
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod , Positional relay
* Crisis Shas'ui
Crisis battlesuit, 2x Missile pod
* 4x Marker Drone

+ Fortification +

* Aegis Defense Line
Comms Relay

User avatar
jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#7 » May 07 2014 03:29

That looks pretty solid to me. Your Riptide should be able to put the Dark Reapers on ice with its ion accelerator pretty easily now, and the SMS should be able to take care of the Warp Spiders, even if they break line of sight.

One thought, though - put the cyclic ion blaster on one of your BC/plasma suits in place of the BC. Yeah, you lose one shot, but the shots you get are S7/AP4, or an S8 blast. Against Eldar vehicles, that's rather nice, while being almost as good against infantry. (Or maybe better, if the blast can hit enough enemies).

The Eldar force probably doesn't have that much super-long-range stuff - mainly the Fire Prism. There's some 48" stuff in there, but you can neutralize that by moving or deploying forward aggressively to get your missiles in range. If the Riptide doesn't have a better target on turn 1, nova-charge the ion accelerator and see if you can fry the Fire Prism. Since it depends on Jink and Holo-fields for defense, it'll have to move - camping hull-down in deep cover probably isn't an option.

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: 1850 Farsight Vs Eldar Again

Post#8 » May 09 2014 08:32

Will do with the ion blaster! (if I an find 5 points somewhere)

Also I will post a battle report if I can get a game together this weekend.

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