Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Cadres who fought and bled under 6th edition rules.
Regelridderen
Shas
Posts: 33

Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#1 » May 08 2014 05:00

I like the speed and mobility of my Farsight Enclave, but I do feel I lack an assault element to bust my enemies teeth in with a chainsword (or other sharp objects).

What I'm looking for is some equally fast jump/jet infantry to ally in, something elite small model count, preferably where I can avoid too much of a troop tax. Any suggestions?

Currently I'm thinking something along the lines of this:

Tau / Marine Alliance

Farsight Enclave 1204

1 x XV-8 Crisis Commander

w. Dual Missile Pods, Target Lock, Drone Controller and Mirror Codex + 2 ML Drones @ 202

1 x XV-8 Crisis Commander
w. Dual Missile Pods, Target Lock, Drone Controller and Mirror Codex + 2 ML Drones @ 152

2 x Drone Squadron
w. 4 Markerlights @ 56

2 x 3 XV-8 Crisis Suits
w. Dual Plasma @ 159

2 x XV-104 Riptide
w. Ion Accelerator, TL Fusionblaster, EWO, VT @ 210


White Scars Allies 645

Space Marine Captain

w. Bike, Artificer, Hammer, Shield @ 175

2 x 5 Space Marine Bikes
w. 2 x Grav Guns @135

1 x 5 Vanguard Veterans
w. 4 Marines w. Lightning Claws, Sergeant w. Relic Blade, Jump Packs, 1 Melta Bomb @ 200
Last edited by Regelridderen on May 08 2014 06:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1081

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#2 » May 08 2014 06:11

Do you feel or do you need ?

I don't see the point to add choppy units (who can lock people in CC and so you can't shoot at them)

But if you insists and want resilient CC beasts to tarpit for a long time a threat :
- Space marines motorbikes (I think you can take them as troops if the HQ is on bike..., otherwise, a 5-TacMarine as troop may be not too costy)
- BigBoss and Nobz on bikes, with a small Gretchin troop to hide them near an objective.
- Blood Angel Assault teams.

Drago Solaris
Shas'Saal
Posts: 29

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#3 » May 08 2014 06:17

I'm personally considering the Dark Eldar to ally my Tau, mainly for personal fluff reasons, but iv looked into them so could help shed some light.

Their troop choices are not too bad, but you will want to grab them a dedicated transport, these also serve as pretty decent weapon platforms, and are all open topped for quick assaulting.

They have a couple of choices for decent close combat, Witches or their upgraded counterparts Bloodbrides are squishy but high in numbers, the only things keeping these alive are a 4+ dodge save or their vehicle while its still going, but they have the chance to get some decent rules each game through random combat drugs. The more elite Incubi have a decent WS and armour save and a decent melee weapon, these can also take the same transports.

With HQ they can all be kitted out to be deal damage in CC, there's a wonderful item called a Huskblade that is a power weapon that also causes instant death on any unsaved wound regardless of toughness.

Now depending on what your fighting there's a certain HQ you may like, shes designed to take out mass guardsmen or tau like ourselves. Lelith Hesperax has a rediculouse WS to start with, and a ton of attacks, on top of this she also gains an extra attack based on the difference between her WS and the highest WS of the unit she is assaulting. Still as squishy as the Witches though.

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Eiglepulper
Shas'O
Shas'O
Posts: 5400

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#4 » May 08 2014 07:50

+1 for the question posed by Kael'yn.

I have to admit though that I have been avidly against using allies in my Tau lists, finding that a Farsight Army is well capable of shooting seven bells out of most enemies.

E.

Rawrgyle
Shas
Posts: 67

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#5 » May 08 2014 09:30

My work on the matter: Clicky here :)

Otherwise a quick couple of notes:

You have both commanders listed with the mirrorcodex, though the points are off and I assume it was just a mistake and only one has it, aye?

And as for the question by Kael'yn, he is quite right. there is having an assaulty element and then there is going overboard. I do know that having an assault element to tie up something for a couple of turns so you can shoot other things first is very helpful, it also helps as when you don't need to actually shoot something like a basic troop that you can easily sweep through is nice also. And the multilayered threat that it creates adds complexity to some lists that make them tougher to handle for some armies.

Question is do you need something that CAN assault or want an assault list with some shooty?

All that said, I'm for the bikes, but against the sternguard veterens in your list. White scars giving you hit and run helps the problem of when you do want to shoot something you can get out of combat and let you do this. But the veteren squad I think you will find will not hold up. Non scoring T4 3+ armor with only 5 bodies they lack any staying power.. and even though they are jump packs, they lack the mobility needed to constantly cause damage and do what you need to as deepstrikes don't allow them to then assault and moving across the table is time consuming.

A better idea if using a captain would to have a command squad on bikes I think.

other thoughts:

With AP2 on your riptides, grav guns, melee ap, etc.. I don't think you need the dual plasma suits, and this maybe a great spot for bladestorm plasma and burst cannons to take on infantry better, while not loosing much effectivness against armored targets.

Just an overall thought is that many of your troops will be in postions to really get hurt... how do you plan to capture objectives?

Regelridderen
Shas
Posts: 33

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#6 » May 09 2014 12:38

Kael'yn wrote:Do you feel or do you need ?


It is, because I lack a more wellrounded game experience. The suit army is good and fun to play, but it is all jumpy-shooty-jumpy, so it could be nice to expand the playstyle a bit.

@Rawrgyle - good call on the Mirrorcodex, the list is just a rough sketch. I'll probably swap a plasma unit for a missile unit too - though I'm not much of a fan of burst cannons.

Regarding objectives/troops, I usually find that blocking LOS and having the big guys draw the attention works wonders for their survivability. My greatest nemesis is deepstrike mishaps - my grey knights never miss their mark, but my crisis suits will often end up dead when deepstriking. Also I tend to forget units that mainly serve as objective grabbers.

@Drago Solaris – I really like the idea of Dark Eldar too. Was considering the Baron + a swarm of Hellions + a unit of Reavers. Probably not that effective, but it could definitely be fun.

Other alternatives on my mind could be:
Dante + a couple of sanguinary guards - although it looks a bit overpriced.
Coteaz + a Death Cult and a Teleporting Dreadknight - Dreadknights never fail to impress me.

But please feel free to contribute with some possible ideas (with or without good synergy), after that, making a list will be the easy part :)

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Moriar
Shas
Posts: 98

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#7 » May 09 2014 09:17

I play Blood Angels as my alternate to Tau, and so would strongly suggest them if you wanted to make an assault element.

You want assault marines? Well, they have them as troops so no need to fret about fitting them into your allies list. There is something very psychologically scarring about seeing a large group of crimson marines with jump packs across the field from you. Grenades for every occassion, melta/flamer/plasma pistols or full fledged rifles of each, and the MEQ statline mean that they will come through if well enough supported. Get rid of AP3 or ridiculous shot count early and they will typically make their money back.

You want vehicles that keep up? Every Rhino chassis is Fast. Predators, Rhinos, Razorbacks can all more than keep up with your suits while maintaining fire. Remember the Baal Predator has the inferno cannon, a flamer that kills MEQ armor at the strength of a railrifle.

You want something to deep strike with you? Consider taking Dante, Astorarth, or Seth (in drop pod, which is free because he is attached to a unit of 9 assault marines w/o packs) and assault marines with or without packs. Alternatively, I like hammer terminators for the Blood Angels, as they are a mere five blacksun filters more a piece than a regular terminator. I am unsure about the current C:SM book, but I know that they were fairly well discounted from the prior edition's hammernators for regular marines.

You want something to draw attention? I have found that a good number of people are unreasonably afraid of Death Company, so plastering a Rhino or Razorback with their iconography and shooting straight at the enemy with it is a great way to buy a turn or two of freedom for your other units. Alternatively, drop pod them into the backfield and just let them do their thing. Relentless means they can make great assaulting riflemen as well. Caveat, Death Company are expensive and I have turned to using them for fun.

Light or medium infantry your game? Why not take scouts? They have a Firewarrior's statline with +1 to S/T, can be equipped for anti-infantry, anti-vehicle, assault, sniping, can infiltrate, can be given camo cloaks for +1 cover. They make very decent overwatch baiters in the assault phase as well, as you can use them to negate the ability of your target to molest your stronger unit such as assault marines/terminators/Death Company/anything else. Multi-charge and hope the enemy expends all rounds to get rid of the scouts and any that make it is just bonus in the assault.

As far as characters go, a Chaplain makes every Blood Angels unit re-roll hits when charging (when he is in their unit), and a Sanguinary Priest offers Furious Charge and Feel No Pain in a 6in bubble. Both of these characters can be taken from elites, with up to 3 priests in a single elites slot. Note that neither of them is a slouch in combat themselves. Librarians have access to some very vicious powers as well, from adding extra attacks to themselves/unit, to increasing their own strength or blasting critters with S:bolter AP:plasma assault weapon shots.


I like Blood Angels, I don't know if that came through, and they immediately sprang to mind when you posted this topic. I don't feel that there would be a bad option from their codex to take in the role you described. Two things to consider though is 1) that they are currently rumored to get a new codex soonish, I believe the timeframe I have been seeing most is sometime around August, and 2) that they are also rumored to be a part of the next 'editions' starter set, so may be easy to get from that.
The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#8 » May 09 2014 03:19

A mildly crazy idea would be Eldar. They're not usually assault-oriented, but they have some options in that vein. Coming to mind immediately would be to take a Spiritseer, not the best fighter, true, but they make Wraithblades into a Troop choice. Take one, a unit of Wraithblades as Troops and a unit of Striking Scorpions as Elites. In a perfect world an Autarch would be better than the Spiritseer, and someone like Jain Zar even better, but the Spiritseer makes the troops tax useful and is fairly cheap to boot. They also come with some interesting buffs and a weapon that has Soul Blaze and Fleshbane.

Wraithblades are expensive, but their high toughness and good armor - which can be buffed to TEQ-grade by the Spiritseer - makes them a tough nut to crack. They have two weapon choices - axe or swords. The swords are quicker and give an extra attack but the axe hits harder and comes with an invulnerable save-granting shield. It's unwieldy, though. Banshees or Scorpions would be your Elite choice. Scorpions have better armor and their mandiblasters help them chew through blobs of weak troops, while Banshees have better AP and nerf the opponent's Initiative and they're faster. Your call, but in my opinion Scorpions are easier to use and more broadly useful. Wraithblades unfortunately lack Battle Focus and Fleet, though since they don't have a shooting attack, it matters less.

If you want to burn up more points, the Wraithlord in Heavy Support is a decent option. A bit slow, but you get armor-cracking assault, Wall of Death overwatch and your choice of heavy medium-range weapons all in one fairly cheapish package. The Wraithknight is more mobile and more durable with some scary shooting, but is also a lot more expensive.

With all this, it's your call whether or not to take Wave Serpents to get your assaulty guys into the fray. You can't assault out of them, but they do add survivability, and while they're mighty expensive transports, they're pretty good tanks, with either Scatter Lasers to chew up infantry or Brightlances to dice up tanks (or other weapons, but why?).

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#9 » May 10 2014 12:58

There's another kinda-sorta option too, but it strikes me as half-baked (and it's not using allies):

Take Farsight, Brightsword and a commander outfitted with a TL fusion blaster, burst cannon, stim injector, talisman and fusion blades, then tape them to a unit of Vespids (you can safely skip the Strain Leader, this time). Huzzah, a fair few attacks - most of them at AP1 or AP2, plus hit-and-run at Vespid initiative, and they can deep strike. Oh, and everyone shoots at the same range, and all your strong-AP shooting should make hash of MEQs that you can then finish off in melee.

You could hang out with Kroot loaded up with hounds, too, but if you did, drop the burst cannon and add vectored retro-thrusters to the commander. Of course they'd have to outflank, rather than deep strike. They'd also have more attacks, more wounds, a lot more Overwatch shots and be cheaper per model, but they wouldn't be jump or have AP3. Pick your poison.

It's a lot of points, and I don't know if it would even work well, but it seems marginally promising.

MORPH
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#10 » May 16 2014 06:01

hi

im fairly new to the tactica but i was thinking about ork boyz 2 full mobs of 30 boyz with pk nob not the fastest but good. lots of boddys to soak wounds. additionally a pro and con point. the pro is footslogging which means it takes a turn or two to get to the enemy but your're tau can shoot while they advance and they are a meat screen. they era not a main threat until turn 2 or 3 but if not dealt with they can make a total chaos which gives you're main army more free movement and options. the con is footslogging if you want to go in fast. as for an hq a mek or weirdboy (warphead) will do.

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Suggestions for assaulty allies needed?

Post#11 » May 16 2014 12:26

Plus, as allies of convenience, they'd be hard-to-dislodge scoring blobs, which can be useful.

Problem with Boyz, though, is that they're better as infantry-mulchers and tarpits than as assassins. The tarpit could be useful, but Tau aren't exactly hurting for ways to mulch infantry. Watch how quickly a blob of Termagants dissolves when faced by Fire Warriors or Kroot within double-tap range, or by a squad of Stealth suits or a Riptide with HBC and nova-charged SMS. That's not the area where assault would be helpful. Though, being able to tarpit a scary melee unit (Hive Tyrant, *fex, Haruspex, Wraithknight, assault termies, etc) would be useful.

Another possibility, expanding on the Eldar idea, is Corsairs rather than Craftworlders. Unlike Dark Eldar, they're battle brothers, so allied troops are scoring. Take a Prince as the HQ - he lets you deep strike three units that can't otherwise deep strike. Their troops are mostly shooty - either a Corsair Squad, which is basically what you'd get if you made Kabalite Warriors, but gave them craftworld Eldar weapons (shuricats and an upgrade to shuricannons or missiles) or Corsair Jetbikes, which are just like their craftworld equivalents, more or less. Neither are great in assault, but neither is wasted points, either, since the Corsair Squads can be given jet packs to join in on your Tau JSJ antics, and jetbikes can do that anyway. Then take Wraithblades as your Elite choice and have them deep strike. Sure, you can't assault the turn you arrive, but you can move+run into cover, then move out and charge next turn.

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