Beam Swords on suits

Discuss home-brewed rules and units with fellow Earth caste engineers.
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Dark Hope
Gue'La
Gue'La
Posts: 102

Beam Swords on suits

Post#1 » Jul 26 2017 10:40

I desperately want to paint a crisis suit slicing off the head of a space marine, or cutting a gaunt in half.

I'm thinking a 2 handed beam sword would cost 22 points, have user strength, have -2 AP, and take up 2 option slots. That way it's not as strong as fusion swords or Farsights relic weapon, but still strong enough to consider taking.

Thoughts? What stats do you think a beam sword should have?
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#2 » Jul 26 2017 10:53

If you're gonna have a Beam Sword, I'd recommend A) limiting their number, and B) making the blade highly experimental (it's where you find just about every CQC weapon the T'au have).

I, for one, plan to make a Farsight-equivalent that uses a Plasma Blade (think Fusion Blade), as that is a natural progression from a Fusion Blade technology (appropriate for cutting-edge... heh... technology) and fits well with Farsight's existing wargear.

I would be wary of giving T'au direct CQC weaponry that isn't experimental. Anti-CQC (like grav drones, Counterfire systems, and the like) seems the more appropriate take for T'au army-wide wargear.

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#3 » Jul 27 2017 02:37

Plasma is superheated gas though, can't really make that a blade, lol. The idea was to make a weaker, more standard equipment melee weapon readily available to all suits. I love me some fusion blades though, commander brightsword is my favorite.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Joe5952
Shas'Saal
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#4 » Jul 28 2017 03:09

I would argue that you could make a plasma sword like a giant plasma cutter. Sure it might trail behind the swing a bit, but if it's coming out fast enough and with enough pressure that could be elevated to a degree. I think we would need to consult a physicist to be sure if a plasma sword can or can not exist.

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Draco023
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#5 » Jul 28 2017 03:20

Considering. Even humans in 40k have managed to create plasma projecting weapons, I'd say it's pretty reasonable that they've managed to find a way to manipulate and contain it rather well. So a short range continuous discharge is feasible. Best guess; some type of shell that contains the plasma until it strikes the target. Gravitational or electron bond maybe? You couldn't parry with it then, unless the stream had enough disruptive force ( thermal or impact) to destroy the incoming weapon. Then you basically have a light saber :D That's doubly true if it is an uncontaminated plasma jet.

EDIT: according to some fluff on the 40k wiki, it's electro-magnetic containment and propulsion. Magnets, how do they work?

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 398

Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#6 » Jul 28 2017 04:39

What bits are you using for the beam sabres. I've been looking everywhere for some. Red in particular.

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Panzer
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#7 » Jul 28 2017 04:53

Draco023 wrote:Considering. Even humans in 40k have managed to create plasma projecting weapons, I'd say it's pretty reasonable that they've managed to find a way to manipulate and contain it rather well. So a short range continuous discharge is feasible. Best guess; some type of shell that contains the plasma until it strikes the target. Gravitational or electron bond maybe? You couldn't parry with it then, unless the stream had enough disruptive force ( thermal or impact) to destroy the incoming weapon. Then you basically have a light saber :D That's doubly true if it is an uncontaminated plasma jet.

EDIT: according to some fluff on the 40k wiki, it's electro-magnetic containment and propulsion. Magnets, how do they work?

Seriously...what do you mean "even humans"? Humanity in 40k used to be on a technological level comparable to Necrons and pre-Slaanesh Eldar. That's far far more advanced than T'au are. It's called Dark Age of Technology, read up on it. :D

Also yeah, anything is basically possible in 40k. It's more a fantasy in space setting than it is sci-fi anyway.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#8 » Jul 28 2017 07:14

Dark Hope wrote:Plasma is superheated gas though, can't really make that a blade, lol. The idea was to make a weaker, more standard equipment melee weapon readily available to all suits. I love me some fusion blades though, commander brightsword is my favorite.


Lightsabers. I'm making a lightsaber. Eisenstein had one, and I want my Farsight Enclave-allied secret ops Cadre to have a lightsaber. It is a common enough Sci-fi Trope, and meshes well enough with existing T'au experimental technology that its feasible.

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Dark Hope
Gue'La
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#9 » Jul 29 2017 03:40

Joe5952 wrote:I would argue that you could make a plasma sword like a giant plasma cutter. Sure it might trail behind the swing a bit, but if it's coming out fast enough and with enough pressure that could be elevated to a degree. I think we would need to consult a physicist to be sure if a plasma sword can or can not exist.


I would strongly argue firing a stream of plasma for a long enough period to slice through something would melt the weapon. Imagine overcharging a plasma gun, but consecutively a dozen times in just 1 or 2 seconds.
If kroot eat orks, doesn't that make them omvivores?

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#10 » Jul 29 2017 04:09

Dark Hope wrote:
Joe5952 wrote:I would argue that you could make a plasma sword like a giant plasma cutter. Sure it might trail behind the swing a bit, but if it's coming out fast enough and with enough pressure that could be elevated to a degree. I think we would need to consult a physicist to be sure if a plasma sword can or can not exist.


I would strongly argue firing a stream of plasma for a long enough period to slice through something would melt the weapon. Imagine overcharging a plasma gun, but consecutively a dozen times in just 1 or 2 seconds.

Well T'au (and now humans as well) found a way to have save plasma shooting for the sake of the strength of the blast. It's not like it's impossible even with 40k in-universe logic. ;)

jukebox
Shas'Saal
Posts: 12

Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#11 » Dec 24 2017 11:46

Unusualsuspect wrote:
Dark Hope wrote:Plasma is superheated gas though, can't really make that a blade, lol. The idea was to make a weaker, more standard equipment melee weapon readily available to all suits. I love me some fusion blades though, commander brightsword is my favorite.


Lightsabers. I'm making a lightsaber. Eisenstein had one, and I want my Farsight Enclave-allied secret ops Cadre to have a lightsaber. It is a common enough Sci-fi Trope, and meshes well enough with existing T'au experimental technology that its feasible.


Had the same thought. Plasma is highly charged and thus can be manipulated abs contained with electromagnetism. Put a force field in place, contain the plasma, you've got a blade. Issue is the projector/weapon/suit/T'au would need to be capable of disappating the high heat bein held within inches of it, so you're talking a shield capable of redirecting heat energy. No mean feat.

As a bonus, the magnetic field would allow you to parry a similar blade, but would need to be tuned to do the same on a less exotic weapon. But, then again, 40k has a lot of pseudoscience in it, so it's doable.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
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Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#12 » Dec 24 2017 12:57

Beam sword. Again. This idea does to the surface regularly... :roll:

Disruption field on a regular blade edge seems a better way to go, from Necrons, Eldar, Humanity, even Nids (biosword are psy-powered) uses them. Because they realize that when your energy source goes wrong, it's nice to have a physical blade to chop and parry. lightsaber without power is less useful than torchlight.

Now if we consider the possibilty of a light/plasma/whatever beam, the main problem is to contain a lot of energy (enough to cut through dense matter) without energy bleeding (blinding light, burning infrared, jamming radio or other electromagnetic lightwave effects).
Two examples:
Extreme: Tokamak (nuclear fusion) confines magnetically plasma in void. But the plasma is unreachable and the energy bleedout is too much for a handheld device, and if open the user will be washed by high energy waves.
Industrial: plasma cutters (torch) are more like lighters on steroids. They often need cooling to avoid the torch nozzle to melt (specially if the plasma is generated internally). Their blade is not very long and the more powerful it is the more protective eyewear and heat proof garments you need. You also need a matter source (plasma is superheated matter).

So you can create not a lightbeam sword, but maybe a plasma cutter (model difference: cylinder become cone).
To create it, look for colored cylindrical plastic cocktail stirrers, heat them on a lighter flame and pull apart: you can the create many conical/cylinder shapes by varying the heating, the movement... Plastic stirrers are often in HIPS, you could use plastic glue with them.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 600

Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#13 » Dec 26 2017 10:12

Kael'yn wrote:Beam sword. Again. This idea does to the surface regularly... :roll:

Disruption field on a regular blade edge seems a better way to go, from Necrons, Eldar, Humanity, even Nids (biosword are psy-powered) uses them. Because they realize that when your energy source goes wrong, it's nice to have a physical blade to chop and parry. lightsaber without power is less useful than torchlight.

Now if we consider the possibilty of a light/plasma/whatever beam, the main problem is to contain a lot of energy (enough to cut through dense matter) without energy bleeding (blinding light, burning infrared, jamming radio or other electromagnetic lightwave effects).
Two examples:
Extreme: Tokamak (nuclear fusion) confines magnetically plasma in void. But the plasma is unreachable and the energy bleedout is too much for a handheld device, and if open the user will be washed by high energy waves.
Industrial: plasma cutters (torch) are more like lighters on steroids. They often need cooling to avoid the torch nozzle to melt (specially if the plasma is generated internally). Their blade is not very long and the more powerful it is the more protective eyewear and heat proof garments you need. You also need a matter source (plasma is superheated matter).

So you can create not a lightbeam sword, but maybe a plasma cutter (model difference: cylinder become cone).
To create it, look for colored cylindrical plastic cocktail stirrers, heat them on a lighter flame and pull apart: you can the create many conical/cylinder shapes by varying the heating, the movement... Plastic stirrers are often in HIPS, you could use plastic glue with them.


I sincerely appreciate the real-world application of science on the viability of a lightsaber/beamsword. (less so the eye roll - not sure that strikes a good conversational tone, do you?).

HOWEVER.

Beam swords exist in WH40k. They do. Inquisitor Gregor Eisenstein had one. Fusion Blades are almost certainly also beam swords.

So yes, we CAN create a lightbeam sword. Its been done, and if those gue'la can manage it, its well within the grasp of the T'au, particularly a T'au that's reknown (in the fluff - lets not touch tabletop mechanics here) for their more precise understanding and control of plasma.

So, again, thank you for the real world perspective, but we're not really discussing the real world's physics, we're discussing the WH40k universe, and its physics allow for beam swords.

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Kael'yn
Fio'Ui
Fio'Ui
Posts: 1120

Re: Beam Swords on suits

Post#14 » Dec 31 2017 03:14

My eye roll are just a smile to see such topic going up regularly, and often finishing on the same conclusion: W40k is just a SciFi setting without hard coherent lore and tech, so anything is OK.

The fluff already show examples of blades and most of them (quite all of them it seems) have physical blades.
Eldar are masters of psychic, so why don't their warlock use blade from pure energy? Chaos daemons use also our universe matter to create their body and weapons.

Inquisitor have access to many exotic toys. Eisenhorn use mostly its psysword over a lightsaber iirc.
Our fusion "blade" seems more of a plasma cutter that a real blade. Or it could combines both maybe: a physical blade with an edge made of the exhaust of a fusion blaster.

The reason that plasma or light sword are not a thing in 40k is probably their usefulness... Or copyright issues.

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