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Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 12:09
by Lil_misfit
Hello fellow Tau!

(I hope I'm putting this in the right area)

So I've just got into the Warhammer 40k table top game. I finally decided to join my favorite race, the Tau, in combat so I've been buying books and miniatures for my custom sept but anyways here is my question of a possible home-rule to come up with. After reading the compilation of stories in the book aply named "Tau Empire" and enjoying most of them, what intrigued me the most was the last two stories involving the sniper teams. After reading that I scanned through the index only to find a sniper drone team (and $45 online for 4 minis?!? geesh). My question was could there be a way to create a custom datasheet for a sniper team variant? Following the rules of the current 8th edition the closest I've gotten to the sniper team represented in the book (two members with rail rifles or one with rail and one with carbine) is by using pathfinders. A team of 5 with two rails and the rest with carbines and markerlights.

What I was thinking for the Sniper unit which would be a squad of 2 (with the ability to add one more model) that had similar stats to the Pathfinders except better BS and a better save. Also the option to either be deployed anywhere on the map after the first turn or something akin to the stealthsuits like Infiltrators or Camo Fields.

In the end I think it would look like:

Sniper Team: M 8'' WS 5+ BS 3+ S 3 T 3 W 1 A 1 Ld 7 Sv 4+

What do you guys think?

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 01:30
by Vio'ra Mal'caor
Dude, have you read the guidelines for the wiki??? They explicitly say NOT to post 'rule corrections' even if they are 'custom'. Just try to stick to the moderation rules for the forums OK???

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 01:47
by Unusualsuspect
Welcome to the Greater Good!

When it comes to custom datasheets for homebrew models/rules, ATT is somewhat restricted in terms of what you can post (moreso than many other sites with "Proposed Rules" or "House Rules" subforums).

You'll generally want to have the following three things under wing before you post a datasheet for the community to discuss:

1. Create a model to go with your custom unit (or a potential design, or a drawing... something concrete from which the Forum can work)

2. Explain the purpose of the model you're creating: what role does it fill, why doesn't an existing unit do its job already, and why you think this unfulfilled role nevertheless is appropriate for the T'au.

3. Playtest the custom rules and share you experience. ATT is not an appropriate place to spitball custom model ideas, but instead is a perfect place to refine them.


All in all, its a fairly tall order for a new player, and so I'm afraid it might be a bit early for you to be having this discussion here on ATT. If the above seems daunting, I would seriously consider going to another forum (Dakkadakka, for example) and come back with a refined idea that we can help polish into a million carat gem.



Edit: Those in glass houses should not throw stones. Shas'la Vior'la, please consider your use of improper punctuation more carefully when lecturing others, particularly a young Shas'saal like the OP here, on ignoring forum rules. :(

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 02:48
by Arka0415
Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:Dude, have you read the guidelines for the wiki??? They explicitly say NOT to post 'rule corrections' even if they are 'custom'. Just try to stick to the moderation rules for the forums OK???


This is the experimental rules lab. If we wanted to discuss custom rules for Knarlocs that were trained as Pathfinders we could do so here, as long as (as Usualsuspect mentioned) the rules were logically outlined, refined, and had a clear purpose in the Tau army roster. No issue at all!

Lil_misfit wrote:Following the rules of the current 8th edition the closest I've gotten to the sniper team represented in the book (two members with rail rifles or one with rail and one with carbine) is by using pathfinders. A team of 5 with two rails and the rest with carbines and markerlights.

What I was thinking for the Sniper unit which would be a squad of 2 (with the ability to add one more model) that had similar stats to the Pathfinders except better BS and a better save. Also the option to either be deployed anywhere on the map after the first turn or something akin to the stealthsuits like Infiltrators or Camo Fields.


I like this idea! Pathfinders do have a bit of a split role between scouts and snipers, so a more dedicated sniper unit could be cool for the Tau. For custom sniper rules, maybe think about smaller squads? I could imagine a four-man team, two snipers (Rail Rifles) and two spotters (Markerlights and Pulse Pistols) and the option to take 0-2 Gun Drones for close-range defense if needed.

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 04:30
by SniperTau
It would certainly fill a role in smaller skirmish games where full pathfinder teams are either not needed or not able to fit in a list. In the black library short story The Kauyon by Andy Smillie the main character is part of a 2-3 tau sniper team. I can see them filling a unique role. Also in the same short story the character makes use of drones of varying types such as observation drones or heavy gun drones and sniper drones. If you are not confident with modelling skills I'm sure someone will be happy to have a challenge.

Tau'va

Sniper

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 04:44
by Panzer
To be fair, the 40k rules aren't supposed to represent such small skirmish szenarios. That's what Shadow Wars and Killteam is for. ;)

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:06
by Lil_misfit
Thanks for the replies and sorry to cause some issues. I thought that this would be okay to post here :sad:. Anyways like I said I'm new to the table top game and haven't heard of Shadow Wars or of Kill Team quite yet. (I'll read up on what those are) When I buy my next set of pathfinders I'll have a go at modelling them and refining the rules to "update" this post.

With many sorrys,
-Lil_misfit

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:16
by Arka0415
Lil_misfit wrote:Thanks for the replies and sorry to cause some issues. I thought that this would be okay to post here :sad:. Anyways like I said I'm new to the table top game and haven't heard of Shadow Wars or of Kill Team quite yet. (I'll read up on what those are) When I buy my next set of pathfinders I'll have a go at modelling them and refining the rules to "update" this post.

With many sorrys,
-Lil_misfit


No apologies needed man! This is the right place!

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 02:28
by SniperTau
Yeah. We just like slightly more polished ideas. No problem. I for one think it's a great idea.

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 02:54
by MNGamer
SniperTau wrote:Yeah. We just like slightly more polished ideas. No problem. I for one think it's a great idea.


It's not like you're called snipertau or anything...

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 02:58
by SniperTau
Ha! :D you may have a point. However, if our OP comes back to us with a full data sheet we will be more than happy to help tweak and stuff. If the OP needs a data sheet template there is one from last years competition, about building your own units. That should help a bit, although some tweaking may be required.

Tau'va

Sniper

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 03:04
by Panzer
Also to note, it always has to be in a tone as if it's supposed as a house ruled unit one would actually play instead of something one would wish GW to actually release.
Wishlisting is not something we like to do on this forum. ;)

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 07:18
by Lil_misfit
Hello all,

Since I know it is going to be a while before I can buy another box and make the custom minis for this unit I'd like to show you the (hopefully) complete data sheet for the sniper team! I hope the image isn't too big.

Image

After my first few games of normal warhammer 40k i'll ask the group if I can test out the unit and what they think of it.

Tau'va!

Lil_misfit

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 08:16
by Arka0415
Wow, that looks so professional!! Nice work. One thing I was thinking about though- it's very rare (actually, non-existant) for any Tau units to have BS3+ without a special targeting array (like the Hammerhead, Skyray, or Firesight Marksman). Maybe you should give them a rule like "Expert Snipers" or something that gives them +1BS if they didn't move or something?

Also, you might prefer the name "Snipers" or "Sharpshooters" since "Marksman" is already taken in the Index.

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 08:39
by Lil_misfit
One thing I was thinking about though- it's very rare (actually, non-existant) for any Tau units to have BS3+ without a special targeting array (like the Hammerhead, Skyray, or Firesight Marksman). Maybe you should give them a rule like "Expert Snipers" or something that gives them +1BS if they didn't move or something?


Okay, that makes sense as that (in a narrative way) would be like the sniper setting up his shot(s). I just put that ballistics skill as I thought he would be a better shot than most ''normal'' warriors.

Also, you might prefer the name "Snipers" or "Sharpshooters" since "Marksman" is already taken in the Index


Darn! I didn't even think about that and yet I knew that unit existed. :)

Thanks for the feedback as always.

Lil_misfit

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 08:49
by QimRas
A solid start. I would say you may want to reconsider the battlefield role, however. Tau snipers are currently Heavy Support, Astra Militarum are generally Elite, and Space Marine currently are Troops because they are weird. Any particular reason these are Fast Attack?

Also, if you want them to act as actual snipers (aka character killers) then they will need some way to target Characters. On other Snipers this is done as a weapon note that lets them target Characters even if they are not the closest target. You may want to add a rule to let them do that.

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 09:05
by Arka0415
Lil_misfit wrote:Okay, that makes sense as that (in a narrative way) would be like the sniper setting up his shot(s). I just put that ballistics skill as I thought he would be a better shot than most ''normal'' warriors.

Sadly Tau really do have an aversion to natural BS3+ :neutral:

QimRas wrote:A solid start. I would say you may want to reconsider the battlefield role, however. Tau snipers are currently Heavy Support, Astra Militarum are generally Elite, and Space Marine currently are Troops because they are weird. Any particular reason these are Fast Attack?

Ah, this is definitely true! Lil_misfit, consider making these guys Heavy Support (like Sniper Drones) or Elites (like the Firesight Marksman).

QimRas wrote:Also, if you want them to act as actual snipers (aka character killers) then they will need some way to target Characters. On other Snipers this is done as a weapon note that lets them target Characters even if they are not the closest target. You may want to add a rule to let them do that.

Yeah, this is important! This rule would be essential.

Re: Sniper Teams?

Posted: Jul 17 2017 09:09
by SniperTau
Very good start. Fast attack is a little weird, as others have said. Also perhaps allow a single special drone, say a spotter drone of some sort, who then boosts shooting somehow.

Sniper