Sniper Teams?

Discuss home-brewed rules and units with fellow Earth caste engineers.
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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#37 » Jul 20 2017 08:42

It also wouldn't make much sense fluff-wise.
If a Drone could make a unit shoot THAT much more accurate, why would Pathfinder still bother with the Recon Drone? That among a bunch of other questions that would come up.

No, we already have a sniper unit that's a mix of Drone/T'au. Having another just reversed wouldn't make much sense. If you want Drones with your T'au sniper, better take some that help them to survive/hide. A weakened Stealth Drone (with the Ghostkeel effect) or simply Shield Drones would do.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#38 » Jul 20 2017 09:00

That's why NONE of the abilities in my entire entry are drone dependent....seriously...is no one reading my entry!?!
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Panzer
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#39 » Jul 20 2017 09:10

CDR_Farsight wrote:That's why NONE of the abilities in my entire entry are drone dependent....seriously...is no one reading my entry!?!

Honestly? I'm just skimming this topic and only pick few things to respond to. I'm really not interested in custom units at all.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#40 » Jul 21 2017 09:37

Experimental Rules Lab...
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Panzer
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#41 » Jul 21 2017 09:38

CDR_Farsight wrote:Experimental Rules Lab...

I know where I am, thanks lol

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Lil_misfit
Shas'La
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#42 » Jul 28 2017 11:10

Hello,

Its been a while but I have finally come back with an update. The custom "Sharpshooter" poses are being worked on. (My first time using green stuff). But as I've been doing real life stuff I finally found the time to update and tweak the data sheet for the snipers so let me explain why I did what I did.

Image

I reduced the speed of the team as since they are snipers they would be moving slower being more cautious of how they moved. This would represent them sneaking around the battle field. Also a few of you advised that I reduce the speed and thanks to CDR_Farsight for his input as it made me think about my own.

I reduced the Toughness and the Save as to keep it within normal T'au bounderies BUT I kept the Ballistic Skill the way it was as these would be some of the best shots in the entire Tau armies in one tiny group. Note I said tiny.

I removed one ability for balancing but kept the two that I liked best as to me it would make sense for the Sharpshooter teams to have these abilities.

I didn't make any special sniper drones but kept the ability to add two tactical drones with these guys to keep the normal T'au feel but my whole reason for making these guys was to keep them away from drone reliance. Plus any of my drones I came up with, you could just use a current drone. Guess I'm not original enough. :)

I made the "Sharps Rail Rifle" with the custom ability to target characters and I changed the icon and power rating to hopefully better suit a unit of this type. For the cost of the "Sharps Rail Rifle" I believe that CDR_Farsight put a good price on it:

Sharps Rail Rifle: 36 Points
Range 36'' Rapid Fire 1 S 6 AP -4 D D3
For each wound roll of 6+ made for this weapon, the target suffers a mortal wound in addition to normal damage. This weapon may target a character even if it is not the closest enemy unit.

The Sharps Rail Rifle began production after the need for a more suitable weapon for the Empire's finest shots. Soon a factory began to produce these specialized weapons, rail rifles with custom scope and enhanced range capability. The weapon got its name from the wounds it would give its targets cutting through easily like a sharp knife.

Hope you all enjoy and I hope to test this unit on the battlefield! Any more feedback will be appreciated and I'd like to hear how they do if you do test this unit out.

Tau'Va,

Lil_misfit
Most of my stuff is here!

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#43 » Jul 29 2017 02:21

Nice! Seems balanced now. How much are the sharpshooters themselves? Same as pathfinders, or different?
Looks very nice.

Sniper

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Panzer
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#44 » Jul 29 2017 04:07

Yeah that looks good.
Points-wise I'd say 8p-10p base for the Sharpshooter himself (Pathfinder are 5p and those have infiltrate over scout, a stealth field and better BS).

For the special Rail Rifle....lets see, the normal one costs 22p and this one has 6" more range and can target characters which is really strong with this profile so I'd put them on 30p I think. This would make them one of the most expensive weapons in our army but I really think a long range S6 AP-4 multi-damage shot with chance of mortal wounds that can target characters would one of the strongest weapons in the whole game.
For reference, that's still only 6p more than a Missile Pod but 8p less than a Railgun.
For a second reference, the currently strongest sniper weapon (imo) is the Skitarii Transuranic arquebus with 60" Heavy1 S7 AP-2 D1d3 and can't shoot after moving. It costs 25p. Yours has less range but could shoot twice as much at half range and has better AP. The S difference doesn't matter at all unless you plan to shoot at T6-7 characters with less than 10 wounds with it. And yours can still shoot after moving so it's easier to get line of sight.

Which would make the unit cost 22p for two models without the sniper rifle and 82p for two models with the sniper rifle on each.
120p for a full unit of 2 Markerlights, 2 Sharpshooter with Rifle and 2 Shield Drones.

Some more things:
- I'd give them special Markerlights as well so they can actually support their Sharpshooters. I'd cost those 5p instead of 3p then.
- the Camouflage Field should only apply for shooting attacks. Maybe only at a specific range as well like the Ghostkeel one.
- reduced Movement doesn't make much sense. Yes sneaky units move slower, but only because they decide to do so not because they can't move faster. Once the enemy spotted them and they have to re-position themselves they would stop sneaking for the most part as well so they wouldn't be slower than others.

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QimRas
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#45 » Jul 29 2017 07:24

That looks way more balanced, and potentially a very fun unit to run.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#46 » Jul 29 2017 08:45

I don't think making them slower really fits the sniper motif. As mentioned above, snipers tend to be pretty mobile, they just need to take a stationary position when making their shots.

As such, you could use some rules that make it beneficial to the sniper team to stay still. Such as a bonus to hit or to their stealth field ability when they stay still. On the flip side you could give their fancy rail rifle a Heavy profile like they used to have, penalizing them for moving.

There is no need for a special markerlight rule to allow them to benefit from their own markerlights, as per the last FAQ all units can fire their markerlights first, add tokens to targets and then lay on with the killing weapons.

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Panzer
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#47 » Jul 29 2017 08:49

Jefffar wrote:There is no need for a special markerlight rule to allow them to benefit from their own markerlights, as per the last FAQ all units can fire their markerlights first, add tokens to targets and then lay on with the killing weapons.

You missed the point there. The Markerlights can't shoot at the character in the first place so the models shooting at the character won't be able to benefit from any Markerlight from their own unit which would be extremely counter-intuitive for a sniper unit.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#48 » Jul 29 2017 02:12

So then, instead of a weapon rule, a unit rule allowing the unit to target characters with shooting attacks (perhaps requiring them to maintain stationary).

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Panzer
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#49 » Jul 29 2017 02:21

Both works but to make it consistent with the rest of the 8th rules a special Sniper Markerlight would make more sense. If you'd give the unit such a special rule they would also be able to "snipe" with their Carbines which would be more than weird.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#50 » Jul 30 2017 12:25

Lil_misfit wrote:Sharps Rail Rifle


I know this is going to sound really nit-picky, but "sharps rail rifle" doesn't follow the general rules for Tau weapon nomenclature, nor English grammar, so it sticks out somewhat. With Tau weapons, usually three patterns are used:

(Ammunition) [Weapon] - i.e. (Pulse) [Rifle]
{Firing Method} [Weapon] - i.e. {Burst} [Cannon]
{Firing Method} (Ammunition) [Weapon] - i.e. {Cyclic} (Ion) [Raker]

By these rules, "new" weapon names can be easily made like Cyclic Pulse Accelerator, Burst Missile Blaster, or Fusion Driver. But in general, they don't tend to use descriptors beyond ammunition and firing method. "Heavy" seems to be the exception, but it's rare.

Also, in English, adjectives cannot be be pluralized without a definite article, but this is still an extremely rare usage. So, if we stick to normal Tau nomenclature, we can try a few different names. Names like "Flechette Rifle" or "Rail Driver" follow the Tau rules but also imply sharpness or power.

Of course though, naming the weapon is up to you!

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Draco023
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#51 » Jul 30 2017 12:23

Arka0415 wrote:
Lil_misfit wrote:Sharps Rail Rifle


I know this is going to sound really nit-picky, but "sharps rail rifle" doesn't follow the general rules for Tau weapon nomenclature, nor English grammar, so it sticks out somewhat.

Also, in English, adjectives cannot be be pluralized without a definite article, but this is still an extremely rare usage. So, if we stick to normal Tau nomenclature, we can try a few different names. Names like "Flechette Rifle" or "Rail Driver" follow the Tau rules but also imply sharpness or power.

Of course though, naming the weapon is up to you!



I think he was abusing the adjective to justify naming it after the historic Sharps rifle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle
Without trying to justify why the T'au are referencing an ancient Terran weapon.

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Lil_misfit
Shas'La
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#52 » Jul 31 2017 02:00

I think he was abusing the adjective to justify naming it after the historic Sharps rifle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle
Without trying to justify why the T'au are referencing an ancient Terran weapon.


I was referring to this. :) Glad some one noticed but I was looking through the index and saw that the sniper drones have a Longshot Rail Rifle that could be used with these guys instead of my custom Sharps Rail Rifle or just use the Longshot's stats + the rail rifle's mortal wound to create the Sharp's Rail Rifle.

What do you guys think of that idea?
Most of my stuff is here!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#53 » Jul 31 2017 02:10

Lil_misfit wrote:
I think he was abusing the adjective to justify naming it after the historic Sharps rifle.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharps_rifle
Without trying to justify why the T'au are referencing an ancient Terran weapon.


I was referring to this. :) Glad some one noticed but I was looking through the index and saw that the sniper drones have a Longshot Rail Rifle that could be used with these guys instead of my custom Sharps Rail Rifle or just use the Longshot's stats + the rail rifle's mortal wound to create the Sharp's Rail Rifle.

What do you guys think of that idea?


It's a surname, huh? Interesting! O'Sharps-pattern Rail Rifle :P

Anyway, the Tau use "longshot" to refer to a weapon with more range, like the Longshot Pulse Rifle which the Sniper Drones carry. Your Rail Rifle does in fact have more range, so... Longshot Rail Rifle, if you'd like!

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
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Re: Sniper Teams?

Post#54 » Jul 31 2017 10:43

Looks interesting, and the weaponry is fiercesome... but the low T/Sv means each expensive weapon is a shattered-glass-jaw away from being removed from the tabletop.

I would boost the movement speed back up to 6", unless the unit is weighed down significantly or a slower species in general - Most sneaky units retain their speed despite their sneakiness, and i see no reason the T'au should be unique in that regard.

...I still have issues with the weapon a bit, and I wouldn't mind seeing it balanced a bit more. I think we want to look to the Arbeques as inspiration, and try to balance it around that.

Heavy 36" or 48", 1 shot, Rail profile (6 -4 d3 w/ M on d6), with the ability to target characters.

If I play this unit, I may also try to integrate Longshot Pulse Rifles into the profile (because while that steps slightly on the Sniper Drone's toes, I wouldn't mind a touch of overlap).

Without integrating cheaper options, this unit becomes nothing more than a single turn's character hunting - it either succeeds or does not, and the next turn no sane enemy would not eliminate such immense firepower on such a fragile chassis.

That suggests difficulty in balancing, but not impossibility, at least.

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