Balancing turn one

Discuss home-brewed rules and units with fellow Earth caste engineers.
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Orion7
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Posts: 84

Balancing turn one

Post#1 » Dec 10 2017 04:56

So after several games my friends and I have noticed that unless you deep strike most of your army, the player with turn one wins.

So we balanced this by giving the second player a +1 to saves for that one turn. Much better balancing and a fairer turn one was had. You still get a major advantage, but not game breaking


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2779

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#2 » Dec 10 2017 06:45

Orion7 wrote:So after several games my friends and I have noticed that unless you deep strike most of your army, the player with turn one wins.

Looks like you solved your own question. You need to build your army in such a way that you mitigate the advantage of having turn 1. Transports, stratagems, reserves, and defensive units are all good ways to do this!

If a player's army is getting fried on turn one, that means they need to build a stronger list, rather than add a crutch rule.

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K'Pokk
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Re: Balancing turn one

Post#3 » Dec 10 2017 11:23

Remember you can only have half your units off-table

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#4 » Dec 10 2017 12:12

If you're getting alphad from shooting you can do two changes that will help.

1) add more terrain. Most game boards do not have enough terrain.

2) house rule that you cannot shoot through bottom floors of buildings unless the target is inside the building.

So if I see a TAC squad in a building st the bottom floor I can shoot it. If I see a TAC squad behind the building because I draw LOS through windows and such, I cannot shoot it.

That might help.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#5 » Dec 10 2017 12:56

Bubble wrap with drones helps against deep striking melee units. Use cover. Changing the game rules changes the game. If you keep getting your butt handed to you first turn then you need to change you units and or tactics, not the rules of the game simply because it isn't forcing you to get better units or make better tactical choices. When you aren't playing against your friends then you aren't prepared for playing raw

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QimRas
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Posts: 361

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#6 » Dec 10 2017 04:23

If you are playing primarily with friends, you may want to try some of the Narrative missions. Missions that include Dawn Raid, or any from the Planetstrike or Stronghold defense game modes do a lot to offset the alpha strike issue.

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Orion7
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Re: Balancing turn one

Post#7 » Dec 17 2017 06:19

Good tips, thanks.
It was just the look on my friend's face when I alpha'd his land raider Ares, a rhino and some kind of tank in a single round that we started to think that it was getting a little silly


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2779

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#8 » Dec 17 2017 06:51

Orion7 wrote:Good tips, thanks.
It was just the look on my friend's face when I alpha'd his land raider Ares, a rhino and some kind of tank in a single round that we started to think that it was getting a little silly

If your friend feels like alpha is too dangerous, they should try to put their vehicles behind LOS-blocking terrain, use cover more often, and use cheap screening units and deep-strike denial.

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Chris
Shas'La
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Posts: 204

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#9 » Dec 17 2017 08:50

Arka0415 wrote:
Orion7 wrote:Good tips, thanks.
It was just the look on my friend's face when I alpha'd his land raider Ares, a rhino and some kind of tank in a single round that we started to think that it was getting a little silly

If your friend feels like alpha is too dangerous, they should try to put their vehicles behind LOS-blocking terrain, use cover more often, and use cheap screening units and deep-strike denial.


With Tau we have a Force at Hand, which can do massive damage via deepstrike with surgical precision. So, I agree Arka. If it was possible to cripple the enemy with such force, he made mistakes. So instead of making new rules, it would be better to improve the playstyle or using the other tips, already mentioned from the various members

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Orion7
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Re: Balancing turn one

Post#10 » Dec 18 2017 05:23

Arka0415 wrote:
Orion7 wrote:Good tips, thanks.
It was just the look on my friend's face when I alpha'd his land raider Ares, a rhino and some kind of tank in a single round that we started to think that it was getting a little silly

If your friend feels like alpha is too dangerous, they should try to put their vehicles behind LOS-blocking terrain, use cover more often, and use cheap screening units and deep-strike denial.

Regarding that, my local group is a touch unclear on the rules of LoS.
Can units such as fire warriors shoot past other, friendly fire warriors?
If not, can a larger unit like an XV8 or commander shoot over the top of smaller units as their guns are higher than the warriors heads? Likewise if an enemy has say a supremacy armour with a line of kroot in front, can I still shoot the armour as it is taller then the screen?


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Balancing turn one

Post#11 » Dec 18 2017 06:08

Orion7 wrote:Can units such as fire warriors shoot past other, friendly fire warriors?

If not, can a larger unit like an XV8 or commander shoot over the top of smaller units as their guns are higher than the warriors heads? Likewise if an enemy has say a supremacy armour with a line of kroot in front, can I still shoot the armour as it is taller then the screen?

Line of sight in 40k is "true." So look from the point-of-view of any part of the model. Can the model "see" the enemy? If so, it can shoot.

Now, if you have a Fire Warrior behind 20 XV8 battlesuits, then the Fire Warrior probably cannot see. However, just because the XV8s are taller doesn't actually matter- look from the Fire Warrior's point of view. If he can see, he can shoot.

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Orion7
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Re: Balancing turn one

Post#12 » Dec 18 2017 07:30

Arka0415 wrote:
Orion7 wrote:Can units such as fire warriors shoot past other, friendly fire warriors?

If not, can a larger unit like an XV8 or commander shoot over the top of smaller units as their guns are higher than the warriors heads? Likewise if an enemy has say a supremacy armour with a line of kroot in front, can I still shoot the armour as it is taller then the screen?

Line of sight in 40k is "true." So look from the point-of-view of any part of the model. Can the model "see" the enemy? If so, it can shoot.

Now, if you have a Fire Warrior behind 20 XV8 battlesuits, then the Fire Warrior probably cannot see. However, just because the XV8s are taller doesn't actually matter- look from the Fire Warrior's point of view. If he can see, he can shoot.


Great, thanks. Likewise does either unit having fly mean that they can "see". As in, that unit would actually be a few inches off the table when shooting (eg shooting underneath a Hammerhead)


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2779

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#13 » Dec 18 2017 08:08

Orion7 wrote:Great, thanks. Likewise does either unit having fly mean that they can "see". As in, that unit would actually be a few inches off the table when shooting (eg shooting underneath a Hammerhead)

Units can "see" from anywhere, even their feet. This doesn't mean they have eyes on their boots, but rather that the models can change their positions. You can absolutely fire underneath a Hammerhead- just imagine that your Fire Warriors lay down in order to shoot!

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steelmanf
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Posts: 13

Re: Balancing turn one

Post#14 » Dec 18 2017 10:43

For the purposes if determining visibility, a model can see through the other models in its own unit.


Figured it might be important to note that line from the Rules. A firing model's unit is essentially invisible to the firing model when figuring out visibility. Yes, I'm just restating the rule like it makes me sound like I know what I'm saying, but the implication here is that it cannot see through other friendly units. Luckily for us, most of our models are easy to through one way or another.

Re: the Fly keyword, the firing model cannot be assumed to be flying while firing. Where it is resting on the table is where you check the visibility from.

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