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Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 10 2017 07:37
by Fokke
So somehow we have gotten a ship full of pathfinders and a few other guys somehow lost in one of our mini-jumps through the warp and coincidently ended up in the Armageddon system and for whatever reason, thought it was a good time to go easter egg hunting for promethium in the still occupied ruins of the hive. Sure.

So what kind of war bands are people planning on using? I have my box but haven't gotten any games in yet though not without trying, silly grownup responsibilities. Has anyone found any good combos of skills and equipment? I would include our guys but except for the specialist options and drones(which have no options) our guys are almost identical to each other. In fact I think our warband has some of the least options out there. We do have some cool specialists though, I love the fireblade and stealth team guy. Their firepower and buffs will be a big help.

Here is the band I was thinking for me(and what I have painted and finished) roughly, haven't fully finalized it.
Leader carbine
2 Regular guys with carbines
1 Regular guy with carbine and markerlight, clip harness
1 Specialist with rail rifle, photo-visor, clip harness
1 new guy with carbine
2 Recon drones

The recon drones are mostly for the burst cannon as we are sorely lacking on firepower although that's a first impression I haven't gotten away from. I actually think we have relatively even firepower to the box squads initially. Guard has a crapton of options but pay heavily for those options. Orks have nice options but are mostly very short range and close combat. Scouts have great stats but pay even more heavily for them. But in theory you can have an entire warband with sniper rifles, camo, and a heavy bolter or missile launcher so they can outrange any other warband in the game and stay almost completely hidden the whole time. I haven't more than skimmed the online PDF for the other warbands aside from ours. Chaos marines look like they could be very nasty, but each guy base is almost or above 200 points so it will be a tiny warband unless you bring cultists(which I hate) but like marines have the option of a terminator who will be nigh indestructible to us.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 07:51
by Fokke
Wrote the above before realizing there was an actual forum for shadow war. Anyway, firmed up a list. Man we are nerfed in gear compared to others. No camo? Really? One of the only races in the 40k universe that regularly uses camo as standard practice sends its recon teams who rely on camo and we don't get to use camo? I would have to drop a drone to use it anyway but still. grrrr.

Anyway this is the force I will be fielding this weekend
Ui Carbine
PF x2 with carbines
Cadet with carbine and marker light(spotter for sniper)
Cadet with carbine
Specialist with rail rifle, clip harness, photovisor
Recon drones x2
Grav inhibitor drone

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 08:43
by Panzer
I'd say you need at least one more Markerlight. Keep in mind that you can always only target one enemy model with it and our BS3 really hurts when the enemy is at least partially in cover.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 11:12
by Peregrim
This may sound strange, but I'd consider giving a markerlight to the rail rifle specialist (replacing the photovisor). The idea is that when you want to shoot a target with your sniper you'd have your spotter mark it making the photovisor useless, and when you want to move your sniper he'd still be able to do something useful by marking a target for your other dudes.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 10:29
by Lyi'ot
I agree with Peregrim that a markerlight is more useful on the rail rifle specialist than a photovisor -- assuming you can keep the markerlight spotter alive.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 11:14
by Ko'Vash
I think the idea, though, is that it makes the sniper independent. He's already not moving in order to use his weapon,so he's really capitalizing on that fact while using the markerlight to support the others in the kill team. The Recon Drones, for example, could really use the help with their BS 2, even if they are each firing 2d3 shots. Add any cover to that and they're really not going to hit much.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 12 2017 11:21
by Panzer
While it would be nice to have a Markerlight on him in scenarios where he is moving it still means that in an ideal scenario where he can camp and shoot stuff you'd still be lacking that one Markerlight for your other guys.
I just think 1 Markerlight supporting 6 shooting guys a bit few since you can always only target one enemy model with it and with our BS3 we REALLY need to get rid of those cover modifier. Shooting with your whole team at 1-2 models is no good unless you play against super elite teams.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 13 2017 12:36
by Peregrim
I think the value of the markerlight is that you need fewer shots to reliably hit and cause a wound, but this comes at the opportunity cost of potentially causing a wound instead. So you mark the high-priority targets, like enemy specialists and team leaders, which you think are most important to eliminate -- not every target you want to shoot at. If that target is still standing after your whole team unloads on it, then your problem isn't "not enough markerlights." :sad:

The way I see it, there's a tough balance between spending too many points on markerlights and not having enough shots to eliminate all your marked targets versus having too few markerlights and missing shots due to lack of support. Maybe this balance is closer to 3-4 markerlights than 2 -- I'm not sure yet. I'm also not sure on what to spend the leftover 5 or 15 points on when you buy an odd number of markerlights, and 4 seems like too many to me.

You make a good point about the flaws of having your second markerlight on the specialist though. Perhaps it would be better to put it on a standard trooper instead, and when you need to move your sniper you can take the hide action to keep him safe. That would also make target priority for your opponent tougher because eliminating one model wouldn't remove both your special weapons guy and your support guy. However it also leaves the specialist rather useless whenever he fails the ammo roll.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 13 2017 12:48
by Panzer
Peregrim wrote:I think the value of the markerlight is that you need fewer shots to reliably hit and cause a wound, but this comes at the opportunity cost of potentially causing a wound instead. So you mark the high-priority targets, like enemy specialists and team leaders, which you think are most important to eliminate -- not every target you want to shoot at. If that target is still standing after your whole team unloads on it, then your problem isn't "not enough markerlights." :sad:

Well that much is obvious and actually not what I was talking about. The fact that you hit so much better with Markerlights makes you need less shots to do what you want to do with the target model. We both agree on that.
But we're not done there yet. You still have models left and the enemy still has models left as well.
So you maybe used 3 models to get rid of that one enemy model and have 5 models left who would struggle with any enemy in cover.
If you hade one more Markerlight you would have 4 more models left hitting on 4s/5s (most likely) instead of relying on 6s/7s to hit with 5 models.

Peregrim wrote:The way I see it, there's a tough balance between spending too many points on markerlights and not having enough shots to eliminate all your marked targets versus having too few markerlights and missing shots due to lack of support. Maybe this balance is closer to 3-4 markerlights than 2 -- I'm not sure yet. I'm also not sure on what to spend the leftover 5 or 15 points on when you buy an odd number of markerlights, and 4 seems like too many to me.

You make a good point about the flaws of having your second markerlight on the specialist though. Perhaps it would be better to put it on a standard trooper instead, and when you need to move your sniper you can take the hide action to keep him safe. That would also make target priority for your opponent tougher because eliminating one model wouldn't remove both your special weapons guy and your support guy. However it also leaves the specialist rather useless whenever he fails the ammo roll.

I never said to take 4 Markerlights. Imo 2 are good. Maybe 3 for late game teams with 10 models.
If you worry about your specialist being useless after a failed ammo roll, you could always give him a pistol. 12" is not that bad as secondary weapon in SW:A and you could always up it to 18" with a Pulse Accelerator Drone.

Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Posted: Apr 13 2017 01:56
by Calmsword
I've played 4 games now and... Man is it rough on Tau.

Two things that I've realized is that the Tau never do well in specialist games (until an update makes us 'op') and that GW really doesn't think that much about us.

To begin with; We don't do anything 'unique', especially in this game: We don't have volume of shots, nor are our weapons very diverse, our drones don't advance, we can't get better armor and our initiative is the worst next to Orks. I'm still playing the Tau don't get me wrong, but we are sorely sorely lacking in a 'role' that is truly Tau.

I understand why our troops are so weak when compared to the other factions; Our battlesuits have become nigh unstoppable so pairing them with able troop options would be extremely dangerous... but the Pathfinders are not doing it for the Shadow Wars.

I run two recon drones, two cadets, two troopers (one with a rail rifle) and a Shas'Ui. Against cultists and genestealer cultists it's an exciting game but I'm now coming up against Grey Knight players and I'm getting creamed. Not 'what could I do better' kind of beatings just straight up 'oh my god-'. Amidst the small bible of special abilities the Grey Knights are unstoppable and there's indications that the Harlequinns are on the same level and I'm gaming that warband tomorrow.

I'm mixing up tactics, but I'd love some advice if anyone is holding their own out there.

ps: On reflection of this rant (sorry guys) I realize the simple solution to a lot of problems would have been to just give us access to carapace armor and initiative 3 (why it's 2 makes no sense).