Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Discuss every aspect of the Shadow War stand-alone game.
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Tael
Fio'O
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#31 » Apr 15 2017 06:22

Oh completely agree, hearing about all factions allows us to see things we may miss with Tau blinkers on.

This whole story reminds me of that saying, paraphrasing of course - The victor is the one who made less mistakes.

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Vay
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#32 » Apr 15 2017 08:30

2 games and a bit more reading:

(Played with Leader bare with rifle, 1 sniper RR, 3 drones (MB3 and 2 MV31) and 5 bare bones recruits)

- Tau are the most none Tau I have seen them write in a long time. They can win, but are vastly out done by all foes out the gate. Resupply only make the slope steeper. But at the core, we do not play like Tau, we are pointed like crappy version of Astra with none of the options, and are missing all of our range but a full cup of insta dead in melee. and we are a 1-10 unit with worse gear and slightly better bs then orcs who get 20! Page orcs next to tau and just ponder. They out range, out shoot, out number, and out gimmick us by stupid amounts.

- Hitting a target is gold. getting unpinned after is GOLD + (We do both poor.)

- We are vastly under range, under armor, under toughness, under choices,... I would argue one of the worst thought out of the choices (Web). Book armies are really well thought out. some of the web armies too. Not us, we have all sorts of logic holes, missing army capabilities, and balance issues. We don't even get Misc gear like we should. Our misc list is tiny... we are an army who lives on options, and we got bare bones.

- Core book armies are very well thought out, balanced, and designed. I think they shot a half baked web pdf for the rest of us (really just Tau) (I would be interested if there is another army as bad)

- Tau can win (won both of the games I played). But I should not have. A good player with astra or SM will stomp our faces even if it is a great tau 40k player.

(going to try and put some +'s on this)
+ If you take a bare team, both your specs on sniper. only 1 or 2 range boosting drones. and play hide and seek the game can be won. O and a lot of LUCK...

-- Did not notice our BC is 18 and heavy so cant move and shoot (making MB3 not worth a crap (and the SS). The drone and the suit that use them don't get relentless like they should.

This gives us one good SPEC - the fireblade. Ethereal and SS are not field able as I see it.

-- our sniper can not get fast shot. cause it is special. So no D3 shots like SM.

-- 145 point SM scout sniper will eat the lunch of our 180 sniper. Better BS, range, and support rules. As to putting points, you do not know what got to that number with out the book or a pdf. So should be good. 35 points cheaper, VASTLY better. O, silenced to boot.

So where does this leave me. I could keep playing the Tau rules. But, as of tonight I am switching to SM Scout rules and using Tau models. Unlike a codex, it really seems like they failed to think out our rules. They are really bad compared to all others (And I do mean all). Grey knights can not buy back their guy, but they at least are gods on the field and have great weapons.

To each there own, but I would offer up to you Tau fighters. Model up some 4+ armor FW as scouts and play with a rule set that might let you win. Or astra, cause then you at least can play as tau with your models.

I think "if" they look back over these rules, it will get much better. That is a big if though on specialist games.
Shas'O Kais Vay Shone’nan

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Shas'La
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#33 » Apr 16 2017 11:52

Played a few rounds this weekend to get used to the rules. PLayed my warband and both scenarios were complex scenarios. One limited me to 5 dudes with the secret mission to get across the board. Opponent had scouts with sniper rifles but only had four dudes. Predictably he split up his guys around the board not know my mission. I stuck to the far edge combined forces to kill his sgt who happened to be closest to me, then sent my group as a group across the board and managed to pin another scout. My surviving recon drone made it across with no problem winning the game. My downed drone gained frenzy.

My second battle was the sentry scenario and I got lucky enough to be an attacker. I fielded a stealth suit with a fusion gun. along with 5 guys, the recon drone, a sniper, 3 pathfinders, all with marker lights and carbines(Ill get to that later). We snuck up on the two sentries to where the stealth suit managed to get right above the door. Everyone was in postion and two guys marker lighted the two sentries and everyone else fired on them. Recon drone missed every shot but one, the other guard was dropped on his face. Stealth guy one shotted the door. We started withdrawing. Opponent had his guys in 2 and 3 man teams for reinforcements and while we withdrew could never manage to roll better than a 2. My only slow down was a lucky shot on the stealth guy knocking him to the ground.

What I learned
Drones are fast but do not rely on them for shooting. At all. I got a single hit in both games on markerlighted targets. Almost seems a waste.

Our range sucks, no it really sucks. Even worse when someone wears camo. We need firewarriors instead of pathfinders.

The ammo rules are ridiculous. 90% of the time you needs 6s to hit. Yeah we get around it occassionally with marker lights but still. Every time you hit, you get penalized. My first game was using chaos marines. I lost both of my bolters and a heavy bolter to this. Lost my sniper rifle and a carbine as well in the last game. Happens waaay too often.

Game is fun, but not meant for more than two or three games with the same band. My Tau were maxed out by the recruitment phase after game one. More to come

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Tael
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#34 » Apr 16 2017 05:11

Yah I'm tempted to trash ammo rolls for professional soldiers. Teams like Genestealer Cult more likely.

As for our guys, really testing our faith. I wonder if GW team was scared of their pulse rifles so decided to 'balance' them with this abysmal range, forcing us to move into Close Combat ranges.

Easter plans haven't given me much chance to play, but from reading the feedback - we've been seriously nerfed.

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Panzer
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#35 » Apr 16 2017 05:25

I honestly can't agree with the ammo rolls complain.
So far I was the only one who had issues with it in our group and that's only because grenades fail ammo rolls automatically and the one time i got to use the flamer.

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Tael
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#36 » Apr 16 2017 07:12

Fair enough :)

My background is Necromundan gangs with scavenged weapons, so I can see gangers burning ammo quickly. Having professional soldiers do it irks me - particularly Marines, since they train in weapons discipline for decades thematically.

Game wise I'll accept it in public campaigns, but likely with mates over drinks and snacks, it may meet a house ruled fate after I run a couple dozen games with the GW Rules first.

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Peregrim
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#37 » Apr 16 2017 09:53

I like the pulse accelerator drone in concept; it's an alternative to the telescopic sights available to some other armies with some interesting advantages and disadvantages.
  • It costs more than one telescopic sight, but its effect can benefit multiple models
  • It increases our range by less than a telescopic sight, but does not require that we stay stationary to benefit
However with 18" range on our carbines compared to 24" for most other basic weapons, in practice it feels more like a tax taken just to match the basic range of other armies. Our 18" carbine range comes from the WH40K codex, but I think they should have increased it to 24" for this game. Then we would be a shooty force with greater mobility than other shooty forces (since a lot of the benefits that other shooty forces rely on require that they don't move).

It is a little strange that our jet-pack infantry like drones and stealth suits (typically some of our most mobile units) have to choose between moving and shooting. Our signature JSJ move has turned into S or J. :? On the other hand, when they choose to move there isn't a downside to running and 12" is a lot of distance -- I'm just not sure how to take advantage of that.

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Shas'La
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#38 » Apr 16 2017 10:30

But they don't even jump, do they? They just walk. I see no reference to jet packs at all.

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Peregrim
Shas'La
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#39 » Apr 16 2017 10:58

In WH40K they're jetpack infantry and get all of its benefits (like being able to move and shoot and then move again). Here they either move or shoot and they don't even ignore terrain.

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ARC'Thunder
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Re: Shadow War: Armageddon tactics and warband make up

Post#40 » Apr 16 2017 11:29

I'm seeing a lot of people with very similar criticisms of the Pathfinders across the board here. Personally, I've only played a handful of games, but I can see where this is coming from based on my limited experience and how things look on paper. I've observed three, and played three, outside of a campaign framework. Currently I'm 0-3; in the latter two I was put in the defender role in both Raid and Ambush missions (against five power armored CSM, and a six man GSCult team), and I was starting to feel the issues I'm seeing here.

I suggest that, for those interested, you make a post on the Warhammer 40,000 facebook page with this feedback. Making respectful and concise criticism may go a long way to seeing some of these issues fixed in the upcoming (or other subsequent) rules releases.

However, keep in mind some of GW's practices and the framework of the kill teams before recommending solutions. For example, I see lots of people in this thread clamoring for rules to take pulse rifles on pathfinders--this is probably not going to happen. Not only are pulse rifles not in the pathfinder kit (kit contents being a major factor in the makeup of the rules), but it isn't thematic to the lore of pathfinders as per the codex. Instead, comments regarding tweaking the rules of the carbines themselves might be more helpful—adding sustained fire 1, or a +1 to hit in a range band being useful suggestions.

I made a post myself regarding some of the glaring omissions in relation to lore; the lack of jetpack movement for our stealthsuit and drones, lack of representation for the underslung photon grenade launcher, and the copy/paste job for the ion rifle that also lacks a secondary blast fire (it would make a perfect tau version of the grenade launcher). But this feedback was prior to playing many (any?) games.

Ultimately, post your feedback there as you would here. Perhaps if our community (both the Tau and ATT) get a good reputation for providing valuable and respectful feedback, we might be looked at for development and FAQs for the faction in the future ;) .

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