[WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#11 » Apr 11 2017 05:58

It's definitely something to surprise your opponent with. Most wouldn't expect the gunslinger guy to be THAT slippery. :D

Mmh now getting the Evade skill as well to get a -2/-1 modifier for the enemys to-hit rolls when he's out in the open would make him a REALLY annoying guy to face.

I already see it coming. I will ignore my whole team just to advance this guy because I'll fail to roll the things I want. :P

Ko'Vash
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#12 » Apr 11 2017 07:56

Panzer wrote:Imagine getting Sprint, Gunfighter, Fast Shot and Hip Shooting. Running 12" and then still being able to shoot 2d3 shots. :crafty:


Just as a note: Gunslinger disallows combining with Fast Shot and Crack Shot, while Fast Shot disallows combining Crack Shot. Still, 2 reliable shots isn't bad vs 1d3 shots. You also benefit in melee with the extra melee die even before getting Gunslinger. Plus there's the whole attacking at strength 5 if you win by some miracle.

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Tael
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#13 » Apr 11 2017 10:12

Totally not SW, but all this gunslinger talk reminds me of a character in my latest Counterpoint novel, Counter-Balance, that I'm writing. He's a Monat and always going solo when 9 foes appear, seeing them as his bros/sisters coming for him finally.

A few characters have to learn to let him go when he sees "the nine", and learn also that he keeps comig back, depressed that they were not worthy, so clearly not his skilled brothers and sisters.

So in a roundabout way, I'm really liking your gunslingers as they have a special place in my mind.

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#14 » Apr 12 2017 01:42

Ko'Vash wrote:
Panzer wrote:Imagine getting Sprint, Gunfighter, Fast Shot and Hip Shooting. Running 12" and then still being able to shoot 2d3 shots. :crafty:


Just as a note: Gunslinger disallows combining with Fast Shot and Crack Shot, while Fast Shot disallows combining Crack Shot. Still, 2 reliable shots isn't bad vs 1d3 shots. You also benefit in melee with the extra melee die even before getting Gunslinger. Plus there's the whole attacking at strength 5 if you win by some miracle.

Huh...and I even re-read the skills. Eh it was just silly brainstorming anyway. No way it'll ever be a good idea to try and stack so many skills on a single T3 5+ character unless it's very late in a campaign. :D

Makes me wonder though...isn't Fast Shot basically always better than Gunslinger though? If you have only single shot pistols of course.
Since there is not really a difference between shooting with each one shot pistol once or shooting d3 times with a single pistol. I mean sure the two shots are more reliable but on average it's the same. And yeah...no. I don't include winning in melee in my thought process unless i know i play against Astra Militarum or such. :D
(Especially because he wouldn't get the additional attack anyway if he's equipped with an Ion Rifle as well as i'm most likely going to do)

Ko'Vash
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#15 » Apr 12 2017 07:00

As funky as dice can be, honestly I'd prefer the two guaranteed shots over d3 shots. If there's one thing that X-Wing has taught me, its that you should take control of the dice results where you can so it doesn't bite you later. That said, our Carbine carriers with Fast Shot? Oh hells yes. That would be an absolutely massive boon to them to help mitigate their terrible BS (comparatively). Pistols at least gain +1 within 8".

In fact, thinking about it, I want my Leader to be my Pistolier, if I do it at all. Access to the Combat and Ferocity chart seems kind of key to making it work for us. Getting a +1 when charged to combat results while stripping the +1 from our opponent's charge via Photon Grenades goes a long way towards leveling the playing field, for example. And having two dice due to the pistols means we could also benefit from the skill that lets us sacrifice a die to add +2 to our result. Stuff like this could actually give a fighting chance. Plus it would just be hilarious to have a Tau who's competent in CC, but does so using guns, as is the Tau way. We shoot stuff good.

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#16 » Apr 12 2017 11:14

The problem is that we need a LOT skills to make a Tau gunslinger okay-ish in melee. Skills you could have used better to make the rest of your team even stronger.
Sure with the +1 to CR when getting charged he is basically BS3 but BS3 is still not great compared to other dedicated melee units. You'd really have to combine it with other skills like the ones you mentioned and then we should get the gunslinger skill as well so he can actually be a gunslinger etc. etc.

Ko'Vash
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#17 » Apr 12 2017 11:20

Oh, I know it's practical. It's just a fun thought experiment. ALSO! I don't know if anyone's already brought this up, but could we not Hide and use our Markerlight at the same time? The only requirement seems to be that you can't Move or Charge and that if you shoot, you are no longer hidden. Markerlight isn't shooting. It's in place of, yes, but isn't actually a shot, which is what matters.

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#18 » Apr 12 2017 11:23

Yeah that should be possible and I actually plan to do just that with my Leader which will act as my main sniper spotter anyway. ;)

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Tael
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#19 » Apr 13 2017 12:01

Oooh... that should so be on a Tactica man. :fear:

Image

Old cartoon of mine from like.. wow, 2001.

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#20 » Apr 13 2017 12:39

I totally agree. :D

Another thing for the tactica would be an indepth analysis of the individual skills, for which unit they'd be good and with which other skills they'd combine well. I could take a look at that but it would be mostly theory for now. :crafty:

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Tael
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#21 » Apr 13 2017 02:36

There is that, contact with the enemy. Couple folks have some serious comps lined up - so info is going to be coming in thick and fast. Will be interested to see your thoughts post game over the next couple of weeks.

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Rizzle
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#22 » Apr 13 2017 07:40

I had in my mind the thought that markerlights would break Hiding, as they require you to do a shooting-sort-of-thing. Looking it up in the rules, I cannot actually find a reference to how shooting actually interacts with hiding though. Can anyone else find the relevant excerpt?

I see a chunky explanation of how silent weapons can allow the bearer to remain Hidden on a coin flip, but no mention of what noisy weapons do :-? I'm hoping the exact wording will make it clear whether an 'instead of shooting' action interacts at all.


On the subject of theory-crafting on skill usage: why not start a discussion thread? I'd be interested in seeing how folk on the orbital feel about the different tables and when/where to try grabbing them. I'm currently leaning towards 1-2 Guerrilla skills early on to give team wide benefits over the punch of Shooting or the flexibility of Stealth... and maybe that is defensible?

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#23 » Apr 13 2017 11:26

Rizzle wrote:I had in my mind the thought that markerlights would break Hiding, as they require you to do a shooting-sort-of-thing. Looking it up in the rules, I cannot actually find a reference to how shooting actually interacts with hiding though. Can anyone else find the relevant excerpt?

I see a chunky explanation of how silent weapons can allow the bearer to remain Hidden on a coin flip, but no mention of what noisy weapons do :-? I'm hoping the exact wording will make it clear whether an 'instead of shooting' action interacts at all.

Noisy weapons don't affect hiding since you wouldn't use your noisy weapon when you are hiding. :D It's only relevant for raid missions. ;)

You break hiding when the enemy spots you, you move or you shoot a weapon. Simple as that. Using a Markerlight has nothing to do with shooting in SW:A. ;)

Ko'Vash
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#24 » Apr 13 2017 07:39

The shooting bit about hiding is under an image break. It was kinda jarring my first time reading through. It's there, though.

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Rizzle
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#25 » Apr 15 2017 02:34

Ko'Vash wrote:The shooting bit about hiding is under an image break. It was kinda jarring my first time reading through. It's there, though.


Blimey - I knew I'd read it but I couldn't spot the thing. Thanks for pointing it out/obligatory joke about it hiding.

Great, that's pretty clear then! I wanted to see the explicit wording to feel comfortable doing this to opponents.

Panzer wrote:Noisy weapons don't affect hiding since you wouldn't use your noisy weapon when you are hiding. :D It's only relevant for raid missions. ;)


As per Hiding - Silent Weapons (pg 27 of the box rulebook) weapons with the Silent rule only break hiding on a roll of a 1-3. This is mainly relevant for sniper rifles and the like of course.

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Panzer
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#26 » Apr 15 2017 04:52

Rizzle wrote:
Ko'Vash wrote:The shooting bit about hiding is under an image break. It was kinda jarring my first time reading through. It's there, though.


Blimey - I knew I'd read it but I couldn't spot the thing. Thanks for pointing it out/obligatory joke about it hiding.

Great, that's pretty clear then! I wanted to see the explicit wording to feel comfortable doing this to opponents.

Panzer wrote:Noisy weapons don't affect hiding since you wouldn't use your noisy weapon when you are hiding. :D It's only relevant for raid missions. ;)


As per Hiding - Silent Weapons (pg 27 of the box rulebook) weapons with the Silent rule only break hiding on a roll of a 1-3. This is mainly relevant for sniper rifles and the like of course.

Not noisy is not the same as silent though. There are silent weapons, noisy weapons and regular weapons. ;)

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Rizzle
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#27 » Apr 15 2017 04:57

Yup - I muddled the waters by giving a name to non-Silent weapons. That's not a category that needs a label :D


Carry on!

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