[WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2652

[WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#1 » Apr 10 2017 11:02

Time to post some pics myself as well.
I was thinking about going with a different theme for the kill team than my regular army ones but decided against it so I can use them in regular 40k without them looking weird.

My list so far includes the following guys:

Pathfinder Shas'ui
+ Pulse Carbine
+ Markerlight
+ Pulse Pistol
+ Photon Grenade
= 225p

Pathfinder
+ Pulse Carbine
+ Weapon Reload
+ Markerlight
= 120p

Pathfinder
+ Pulse Pistol
+ Pulse Pistol
= 120p

Pathfinder Specialist
+ Rail Rifle
+ Pulse Pistol
+ Clip Harness
= 220p

Pathfinder Specialist
+ Ion Rifle
+ Pulse Pistol
= 190p

Recon Drone
= 110p

I wish we could take some of the cool misc gear the other teams can take like Camo gear for example but we are unfortunately very limited in our loadouts.


Anyway, lets kick this off with my Leader Shas'Ui!
Image

EDIT: list corrections
Last edited by Panzer on Apr 11 2017 03:57, edited 2 times in total.

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Tael
Fio'O
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#2 » Apr 11 2017 12:09

Interesting list, I'm scribbling over and over with likely fitting in more drones. I haven't a dual weild fighter though :D

I like the commander pose; will he hang back majority of the game "coordinating" ?

As for Rifles and Carbines, I'm not sure either - seems like you can shop till you drop ala 2nd Edition Weapon Lists.

I used have Imperial Guard with lasguns, Frag Grenades, Grenade Launchers on their lasguns, visors...etc etc

As you say though, if illegal, can always count as Pistols.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2652

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#3 » Apr 11 2017 12:57

Tael wrote:Interesting list, I'm scribbling over and over with likely fitting in more drones. I haven't a dual weild fighter though :D

I like the commander pose; will he hang back majority of the game "coordinating" ?

That was the plan, yeah. :D Makes a lot of sense for Tau imo so it's not even about protecting my leader or anything like that.

The gunslinger guy is me just being fancy. I can do it and I love gunslinger so I'll do it. Even my CSM team has a gunslinger. :D
I don't expect him to be efficient at all though. S5 AP- is bad and in melee he won't be any real threat with WS2 anyway. Maybe if I get the gunslinger skill with him he can be that one annoying guy that goes around and pins everyone with his two shots.
I wish I could give him Agility skills though so he could run&jump better. :D

Jemini78
Shas'La
Posts: 28

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#4 » Apr 11 2017 03:48

hey just for the record, the specialists unfortunately can't be equipped with a carbine for SW:Armaggedon, they are only allowed their specialist guns or a pistol. Modelling wise they look cool with a carbine strapped to their back, but rules wise they aren't allowed them, so just letting you know. I too wish we could get camo cloaks, or even some other goodies like the telescopic lens to extend the range on our specialists. The lack of options does make some factions like scouts more appealing, simply because they can get weapons with some serious range, but that probably wont matter as much if you have a dense terrain set up.

I look forward to seeing your models though.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2652

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#5 » Apr 11 2017 03:53

Jemini78 wrote:hey just for the record, the specialists unfortunately can't be equipped with a carbine for SW:Armaggedon, they are only allowed their specialist guns or a pistol. Modelling wise they look cool with a carbine strapped to their back, but rules wise they aren't allowed them, so just letting you know. I too wish we could get camo cloaks, or even some other goodies like the telescopic lens to extend the range on our specialists. The lack of options does make some factions like scouts more appealing, simply because they can get weapons with some serious range, but that probably wont matter as much if you have a dense terrain set up.

I look forward to seeing your models though.

Oh you're right!
Totally missed that they can't take basic weapons. Well that's that then I guess. Pistols it is. :D

Thanks for mentioning it. If there's anything else against the rules with my list let me know!

Makes me wonder...depending on how skill progression goes I might even make my Ion Rifle specialist into a secondary gunslinger as well. He has to be fairly close anyway (12") and it might be an interesting choice to up the chance to pin a target instead of trying to kill it.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#6 » Apr 11 2017 04:51

Okay I'm re-thinking my list a bit. I might actually fuse my Ion Rifle and Gunslinger guy.

Sure, I wouldn't be able to use both Pistols in melee but that would hardly make a difference anyway.

On the otherside he would have access to the agility skills from which Catfall, Sprint and Leap are very nice. Catch Grenade, Dodge, and Jump back are a bit unreliable but can save his life from time to time if he gets lucky.
Especially Jump back could change a whole game on its own. A 1/3 chance to avoid hand-to-hand combat at all sure is nice for someone with close range weapons like pistols and the Ion Rifle. :D

Imagine getting Sprint, Gunfighter, Fast Shot and Hip Shooting. Running 12" and then still being able to shoot 2d3 shots. :crafty:

Anyway, that would leave me with one model with no purpose. I could make him into another Carbine/Markerlight guy. I'm open for other fancy ideas though. :D

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Tael
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#7 » Apr 11 2017 04:55

Dang that is annoying modelling wise :/

Fair idea Panzer on the gunslinger.

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Rizzle
Kor'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#8 » Apr 11 2017 05:27

Aha! I can see why you mentioned the similarity between our Shas'Ui now :)

Looking forward to seeing your team progress. On the subject of the gunslinger, it is a pity the limit of 2 stops you bringing a rail rifle, ion rifle and pistol specialist. The only rules disadvantage I can see to combinining the ion and pistol chaps together is that you miss out on the +1 attack dice in close combat. I doubt that is your priority here :)

Actually, as I type this I realise that once the pistolier starts acquiring skills they'll be tricky to actually charge for any non-Harlequin, non-Tyranid fighters. With the +1 to hit from short range with he pistols and multiple shots from either Overwatch, Supporting Fire or both they are likely to pin the target before they reach them.

Blimey. I may have to push pistols up my Rearm priority list and consider getting my own pistol specialist.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#9 » Apr 11 2017 05:41

Rizzle wrote:Aha! I can see why you mentioned the similarity between our Shas'Ui now :)

Looking forward to seeing your team progress. On the subject of the gunslinger, it is a pity the limit of 2 stops you bringing a rail rifle, ion rifle and pistol specialist. The only rules disadvantage I can see to combinining the ion and pistol chaps together is that you miss out on the +1 attack dice in close combat. I doubt that is your priority here :)

Actually, as I type this I realise that once the pistolier starts acquiring skills they'll be tricky to actually charge for any non-Harlequin, non-Tyranid fighters. With the +1 to hit from short range with he pistols and multiple shots from either Overwatch, Supporting Fire or both they are likely to pin the target before they reach them.

Blimey. I may have to push pistols up my Rearm priority list and consider getting my own pistol specialist.


Yeah a third Specialist would be ideal!

Haha you're right, didn't even think about Overwatch yet. 2 shots hitting on 5s (most likely) at short range Overwatch is not half bad! Even better once you got the Fast Shot skill since that would be 2d3 (average of 4) shots hitting on 5s! :D

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Rizzle
Kor'La
Posts: 108

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#10 » Apr 11 2017 05:46

And that's to counter a charge :D

I'm going to be painting up some holsters, is what I'm saying. Even a group of 3 cadets + drone has an expected output of on pistol hits from Supporting Fire. It's not a 'win the game' button as it relies on positioning and luck, but it's a wrinkle I'd completely overlooked.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#11 » Apr 11 2017 05:58

It's definitely something to surprise your opponent with. Most wouldn't expect the gunslinger guy to be THAT slippery. :D

Mmh now getting the Evade skill as well to get a -2/-1 modifier for the enemys to-hit rolls when he's out in the open would make him a REALLY annoying guy to face.

I already see it coming. I will ignore my whole team just to advance this guy because I'll fail to roll the things I want. :P

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Posts: 138

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#12 » Apr 11 2017 07:56

Panzer wrote:Imagine getting Sprint, Gunfighter, Fast Shot and Hip Shooting. Running 12" and then still being able to shoot 2d3 shots. :crafty:


Just as a note: Gunslinger disallows combining with Fast Shot and Crack Shot, while Fast Shot disallows combining Crack Shot. Still, 2 reliable shots isn't bad vs 1d3 shots. You also benefit in melee with the extra melee die even before getting Gunslinger. Plus there's the whole attacking at strength 5 if you win by some miracle.

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Tael
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#13 » Apr 11 2017 10:12

Totally not SW, but all this gunslinger talk reminds me of a character in my latest Counterpoint novel, Counter-Balance, that I'm writing. He's a Monat and always going solo when 9 foes appear, seeing them as his bros/sisters coming for him finally.

A few characters have to learn to let him go when he sees "the nine", and learn also that he keeps comig back, depressed that they were not worthy, so clearly not his skilled brothers and sisters.

So in a roundabout way, I'm really liking your gunslingers as they have a special place in my mind.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#14 » Apr 12 2017 01:42

Ko'Vash wrote:
Panzer wrote:Imagine getting Sprint, Gunfighter, Fast Shot and Hip Shooting. Running 12" and then still being able to shoot 2d3 shots. :crafty:


Just as a note: Gunslinger disallows combining with Fast Shot and Crack Shot, while Fast Shot disallows combining Crack Shot. Still, 2 reliable shots isn't bad vs 1d3 shots. You also benefit in melee with the extra melee die even before getting Gunslinger. Plus there's the whole attacking at strength 5 if you win by some miracle.

Huh...and I even re-read the skills. Eh it was just silly brainstorming anyway. No way it'll ever be a good idea to try and stack so many skills on a single T3 5+ character unless it's very late in a campaign. :D

Makes me wonder though...isn't Fast Shot basically always better than Gunslinger though? If you have only single shot pistols of course.
Since there is not really a difference between shooting with each one shot pistol once or shooting d3 times with a single pistol. I mean sure the two shots are more reliable but on average it's the same. And yeah...no. I don't include winning in melee in my thought process unless i know i play against Astra Militarum or such. :D
(Especially because he wouldn't get the additional attack anyway if he's equipped with an Ion Rifle as well as i'm most likely going to do)

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Posts: 138

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#15 » Apr 12 2017 07:00

As funky as dice can be, honestly I'd prefer the two guaranteed shots over d3 shots. If there's one thing that X-Wing has taught me, its that you should take control of the dice results where you can so it doesn't bite you later. That said, our Carbine carriers with Fast Shot? Oh hells yes. That would be an absolutely massive boon to them to help mitigate their terrible BS (comparatively). Pistols at least gain +1 within 8".

In fact, thinking about it, I want my Leader to be my Pistolier, if I do it at all. Access to the Combat and Ferocity chart seems kind of key to making it work for us. Getting a +1 when charged to combat results while stripping the +1 from our opponent's charge via Photon Grenades goes a long way towards leveling the playing field, for example. And having two dice due to the pistols means we could also benefit from the skill that lets us sacrifice a die to add +2 to our result. Stuff like this could actually give a fighting chance. Plus it would just be hilarious to have a Tau who's competent in CC, but does so using guns, as is the Tau way. We shoot stuff good.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#16 » Apr 12 2017 11:14

The problem is that we need a LOT skills to make a Tau gunslinger okay-ish in melee. Skills you could have used better to make the rest of your team even stronger.
Sure with the +1 to CR when getting charged he is basically BS3 but BS3 is still not great compared to other dedicated melee units. You'd really have to combine it with other skills like the ones you mentioned and then we should get the gunslinger skill as well so he can actually be a gunslinger etc. etc.

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Posts: 138

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#17 » Apr 12 2017 11:20

Oh, I know it's practical. It's just a fun thought experiment. ALSO! I don't know if anyone's already brought this up, but could we not Hide and use our Markerlight at the same time? The only requirement seems to be that you can't Move or Charge and that if you shoot, you are no longer hidden. Markerlight isn't shooting. It's in place of, yes, but isn't actually a shot, which is what matters.

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2652

Re: [WIP] Sa'Cea Recon Cadre

Post#18 » Apr 12 2017 11:23

Yeah that should be possible and I actually plan to do just that with my Leader which will act as my main sniper spotter anyway. ;)

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