Most survivable enemies encountered?

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Bean_Town_Tau

Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#1 » Nov 25 2014 05:09

At first I was just curious about what models in the 40k universe had the most wounds, then I started thinking about which ones were the hardest to kill. I think with the Tau the obvious choice is probably the Riptide and its various forms. But what about other factions? What other enemies should I always have a game plan for when going up against another army? Or for those of you with multiple armies, whats you're favorite unit to drive opponents insane with? Seemed like a fun topic and one that could help me shape my army in the future!

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Ro'Kunas
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#2 » Nov 25 2014 06:30

Awesome question! I think the subject title is a bit misleading though.
I took it as "Easiest Armies/Enemies to beat on?" but then I read the body, and you seem to be actually asking "Toughest Adversaries' or 'problem Units of the enemy).
So, I'll throw in my cents/ shillngs worth on both. lol

EASIEST army for me seems to be Orcs, but perhaps that's because I run with the Farsight Enclaves. Once, out of five matches, did the Greenskin edge me out, and it's because I got a little too cocky with Mr. Bright Sword against an Armored Mega Knob from Hell! Other than that, the Tau have range, movement, and weapons that Ignore Cover on demand, so the Boyz are usually a Milk Run.

As far as Units that you need to always be prepared for, I believe the Imperial Knight, in it's various forms, have proven to be a tough nut for the Tau to crack, but not impossible. You just need to be tactically aware of the best options to beat them. There are several threads on here that dive into Anti-Knight Strategy, but the most comprehensive, IMHO, is this one.

Another enemy unit to watch out for is the Chaos/Demon Heldrake, which can really be quite nasty. A bit tough to kill, even for an army with plentiful AA options, Heldrakes can decimate Tau Fire Warriors, Stealth Teams, Pathfinders, and ESPECIALLY Kroot with ease. I usually make bringing down the "Hell Turkey" a priority.

Personally, I find Psykers to be either annoying or incredibly damaging. Since Tau have no Psyker ability and only One, rare Item of Anti-Psyker defense, if they catch you in a tough spot, or unprepared, they WILL hurt you. Psychic Shriek is one ability I hate the most, as it can easily wipe out a squad of Infantry (even Crisis Suits if you're unlucky) without much option to save.

Lastly (for now) how about Swooping Hawks? Do you guys encounter this? The Eldar player in my Meta has this trick he likes to do. He gets two squads of these guys, in reserve, and when they come on, they land a Pie-Plate that Ignores cover on any Fire Warriors he sees, obliterating most, if not all of them, with that Eldar Grenade Strike thingy (which punches RIGHT THROUGH Fire warrior armor), and then, as soon as he is able to (next round or the one after I think), he lifts them back off the board into Ongoing Reserves, to repeat the attack the following turn. For the love of the Greater Good, I hate that.
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Bean_Town_Tau

Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#3 » Nov 25 2014 08:23

Yeah, I suppose that the title should have been worded differently! I have yet to encounter a helldrake but theres a guy at my local shop that has one, I'm sure eventually he'll bring it out. Landraiders gave me trouble... Until I got shadowsun and dropped her in behind it!! That 14 armor is ridiculous but shadowsun and her crisis bodygaurds took care of two in my last match.

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reconjsh
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#4 » Nov 25 2014 09:01

Well, if a vague answer is acceptable, then I'd say "any unit with both invisibility and invuln. saves". I always struggle against it. I still win most of the time though, generally by ignoring the unit and reducing its impact on the game by out maneuvering it.

Recon.
Last edited by reconjsh on Nov 25 2014 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Bean_Town_Tau

Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#5 » Nov 25 2014 09:08

Vague answers are absolutely acceptable as it was a pretty vague question! Lol and I have yet to come across anything with invisibility (still pretty new) what does that do???

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Jefffar
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#6 » Nov 25 2014 10:10

As an army, one would have to give the nod to the Necrons. Their units are incredibly resilient without even receiving upgrades like Ressurection Orbs. You can't rely on a unit that has even a single model left being out of the game.

Bean_Town_Tau

Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#7 » Nov 25 2014 10:35

I have to agree with you there. I play frequently against a necron player and its always a challenginf match. He uses tesla much more (and much more effectively) than other cron players ive come across. He's such a formidable foe that I have plans to include an underground necron diorama in my at-home tau game table.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#8 » Nov 26 2014 06:03

With the new Dark Eldar Supplement, it's pretty difficult to kill Talos and Cronos now.
1. There's a new formation made of a Haemonculus, a Talos and a Cronos - to which the Haemy cna buy a Webway portal and arrive on the spot it needs to via DS
2. They all have FnP 5+
3. The Cronos can get an upgrade that ups its unit's FnP by +1.

S, 2 T7 3W 3+ save with FnP 4+ monsters that will arrive at 1" from whatever it'll want to charge in their next round... ah, it's a formation - so the DE player can grab as many as he wants. Interceptor? Nothing short of S8 AP3 or better will dent this thing. Tried a full unit of HYMP broadies... to score 1 wound.

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Vay
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#9 » Nov 26 2014 09:54

For our meta:

Standard game:

Demon prince, nurgle, flying, insta gib weapon, powers (iron arm).

+2 cover with jink, attacks you with out error with mind powers, then closes to melee for slaughter, and if it wants it summons more demons.

APOC:

With powers combined, the named greater demon of Zeentch has 2+ invuln re-roll ones (The 999 guy). Also kills like a champ, but with the first thing does any thing else matter? 6+ wounds with 2+ invuln reroll ones does not die. With the nerf to D, your playing Russian roulette and hoping for a 6.

Next would be the Manta:

Most I have ever taken was 6 HP, 1/5th of my total. Fear also makes it not kill-able. If your enemy can not imagine it being killed, he does not attack it. (Flying also means if you see a threat you fly off)

Of note, the Manta is what killed the Zeentch guy after it went through about 1500+ of paper dolls. (Landraiders, termi-suits, some MC's, and 30+ inf)
Shas'O Kais Vay Shone’nan

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shas'o gann'yr
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#10 » Nov 26 2014 10:39

Winged Demon Princes of Nurgle. I honestly think that Jinking should reduce your WS to 1 because of this nonsense. There's literally no need to zoom with one, and there's no drawback to this model in any way. Psychic disciplines make it even harder to deal with, especially with our rather weak counter to Psychic Abilities.

Manta is fairly hard to deal with, as Vay mentioned.

Riptides are generally hard to deal with in our meta, too. When I got mine recently all the other players were discouraged. Vay and I share the same meta and I think that while we both see ways to deal with Riptides, there's a distinct psychological advantage to taking them. I think that the Wraithknight falls into this category as well, though I don't field mine (when I play Eldar) very often. I'd schemed out an allied detachment with one in it, but I haven't fielded it yet. It's another Psychological problem when opponents see it's stats.

Imperial Knights should also be noted, if they haven't already. It takes a lot of effort to remove them from the board, and they can ruin your day if you ignore them.
"In the end, the final arbiter is victory"

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Vay
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#11 » Nov 26 2014 01:36

I love killing wraithknights... and riptides... "big game hunter" (one of our tau players used to Riptide X 2 and deathrain me, Cat and mouse with rocket launchers is a blast. Like chess Queen vs Queen)
Shas'o Gann'yr is right though, what one thinks is un-kill-able is immortal.
Shas'O Kais Vay Shone’nan

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nic
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#12 » Nov 26 2014 02:34

Vay wrote:For our meta:

APOC:

With powers combined, the named greater demon of Zeentch has 2+ invuln re-roll ones (The 999 guy). Also kills like a champ, but with the first thing does any thing else matter? 6+ wounds with 2+ invuln reroll ones does not die. With the nerf to D, your playing Russian roulette and hoping for a 6.



Times like that you wish you brought some psyker allies along - Banishment is the primaris for Sanctic so you always have some chance against the dreaded 2++ re-roll daemon nonsense. Or a Culexus, never leave home without your blank :evil:

One of my son's friends had a Defiler that just would not die - its ability to make invun saves once it was down to 1HP and then start making IWND rolls was legendary. No reason, just statistical fluke. Cue high fives when deathrains + riptide + missileside finally did the job earlier this month.

Anyway, sensible answer, daemons with 2++ and the re-roll unless you have the right allies.

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Kilmor
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#13 » Nov 26 2014 04:15

Let's see

2++ reroll deamons, great unclean one, flying nurgle princes.

Iron hands chapter master on bike with command squad. 2+, 3++, 4+fnp and iwnd.

Necron chariot lord is a pain. The trans ctan is sooo strong too.

The heldrake is probably the most durable flier, and chaos lords with good boons andrelics can be a pain too.

Eldar have above average survivability on a lot of things, but nothing un killable. Tyranids go for volume of wounds, not actually great stats. And cover saves.

Dark eldar archon is still good with 2++ with some bodyguards.
Ork boss on bike with lucky stick can get crazy good too.

Most armies have one or two really tough units. Tau and eldar are about in the same boat.

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Nevar
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#14 » Nov 26 2014 06:38

The Tyranid Heirophant Bio-titan.

I own one and have fielded it many times at my LGS in normal games, tourneys, and kill the titan games.

One time it was reduced to 1 wound by turn 7 with entire IG platoons pumping it fill of lascannon.

And that was when I though Tyranid regen was on a 6+. Turns out regen is a 4+ to regain a wound... now it is pretty unkillable. Fusion blasters wound the beast on 5+, it has a 6++ and FnP with Regen. Oh and 2+ armor if that even matters. Amazingly durable with 10 wounds to start and T9. I would rather fight a Manta TBH.

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Vay
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#15 » Nov 26 2014 07:58

Lol, we faced it in a 3K v 3K game... it more or less did what it wanted to do and no way we were going to kill it within 7 rounds. Mini-Bat-Rep sums it up:

2000 Nids + 1000 Nurgle-Marines VS 1000 Alpha Legion, 1000 Demons, 1000 Tau
And yes, back left is a very not kill able TYRANID HIEROPHANT BIO-TITAN.
Image

Battle Report:
1-4 turns (time stopped but it was TYRANID HIEROPHANT BIO-TITAN vs rest of our army moving and hiding). Victory was achieved by circumventing the Titan and slowly killing the back field while "hiding" from its view. Playing points wins us the game 20 vs 7.
1 400ish point killing machine demon prince and a bloodthirster gave a go at the TYRANID HIEROPHANT BIO-TITAN, killed like little snotlings.

If you are at 1000 points and face a TYRANID HIEROPHANT BIO-TITAN, best tactic is to avoid and out maneuver. Cover and los blocking drastically reduces its kill capability. It will kill what it catches though and you will not kill it. (Amazing stats and abilities to not die)

Very very fun game, it was very interesting to know that I could not take out my enemy but that I could win the war.

I was using a:

1 Raven
3 XV8 Deathrains
1 XV8 Burning Eye
1 XV9 Storm
1 XV109
2 Tetras (campaign bonus - Story linked to be on Armageddon and counts above the 1000)
2 Remoras (MVPs of the mission killing 1 Nurgle demon prince and large sections of the back field while hiding from the TYRANID HIEROPHANT BIO-TITAN)
Shas'O Kais Vay Shone’nan

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shas'o gann'yr
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#16 » Nov 27 2014 08:51

Vector Strike wrote:With the new Dark Eldar Supplement, it's pretty difficult to kill Talos and Cronos now.
1. There's a new formation made of a Haemonculus, a Talos and a Cronos - to which the Haemy cna buy a Webway portal and arrive on the spot it needs to via DS
2. They all have FnP 5+
3. The Cronos can get an upgrade that ups its unit's FnP by +1.

S, 2 T7 3W 3+ save with FnP 4+ monsters that will arrive at 1" from whatever it'll want to charge in their next round... ah, it's a formation - so the DE player can grab as many as he wants. Interceptor? Nothing short of S8 AP3 or better will dent this thing. Tried a full unit of HYMP broadies... to score 1 wound.


I was able to kill this formation with Wraithguard. I rolled two 6's to wound with the Wraithcannons and got his Haemonculous with the last shot from the squad. I don't know what I could have done to stop this nonsense playing Tau.
"In the end, the final arbiter is victory"

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boomwolf
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#17 » Nov 27 2014 02:34

WG are some nasty folks no matter what they shoot at. even superheavies got what to fear there.

Suprisingly though, I think we got one of the most unkillable combos possible

Aun'va+attached commander with iridium and stims (and shield gen insurance if you feel like it)

The sheer number of rolls a shot needs to get through in order to land a wound is stunning, and you got plenty off (use the bodyguards fist to die in order to get T5 later on)

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Most survivable enemies encountered?

Post#18 » Nov 27 2014 03:24

boomwolf wrote:WG are some nasty folks no matter what they shoot at. even superheavies got what to fear there.

Suprisingly though, I think we got one of the most unkillable combos possible

Aun'va+attached commander with iridium and stims (and shield gen insurance if you feel like it)

The sheer number of rolls a shot needs to get through in order to land a wound is stunning, and you got plenty off (use the bodyguards fist to die in order to get T5 later on)


Is it really bad of me to want to try this with O'Vesa just once. It is not really unkillable as a shooting unit can outflank the wound tank up front or an opponent can just assault it. Ridiculously tanky and unfluffy way to get Ld boost across the whole table in a large game.

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