Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

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Unusualsuspect
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Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#1 » Mar 03 2017 06:41

Well, we finally have the rules leaked (pretty much entirely through the Warhammer twitch channel, apparently) for nothing less than The Primarch of the Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman.

His stats are fairly beastly, with all 6s except WS and Leadership (9 and 10, respectively), the Monstrous Creature (character) type, 2+/3++/5+++, Eternal Warrior, and a host of other special rules.

He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

The Blade of the Emperor really lives up to its name. He hits like a Railgun solid shot (or if he rolls a 6 to hit, with D strength) and more special rules than you could shake a stick at. He also is given the option of giving up his 6 attacks to attack every unit within 1" of him with an attack per model in that unit - Tarpitting this Primarch is just not going to happen.

Edit: Some rumors suggest it only allows attacks against models within 1" of Guilliman, not ALL models in ALL units. Either way, it's pretty potent after a consolidation move or two.

He also has an incredible 12" radius aura, as he incorporates ALL of the Command Warlord traits.

And even if you put him down for good, he can get up the next turn (with no limit on the number of resurrections) with 1d3 wounds on a 4+. Putting him down permanently is going to be a bit of a challenge.

His own ranged capabilities seem limited to an 24" Assault 3 6/2 rending weapon - nasty, but not even a match for an Ion Accelerator. His 12" radius aura does boost shooting around him, though - he's likely not a potent threat at range for his points, so playing keep-away seems worthwhile.


We don't know his points, but his defenses make him more durable than a Nova-ing Riptide with Stims (though only by 1 wound). Aside from unloading Stormsurge Destroyer Missiles into Guilliman's face, how best to deal with this slow-moving engine of annihilation?

Edit: He is rumored (by a fairly reputable source on Dakkadakka) to be 350 points. I'd expect to see him in a lot of Imperial armies, once he's released.
Last edited by Unusualsuspect on Mar 04 2017 04:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Jefffar
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#2 » Mar 03 2017 09:05

My recommendation is to kill every unit within 12" of him.

Let this guy wreck stuff one unit at a time. It's the buffs he gives other units that threaten the army.

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#3 » Mar 03 2017 09:11

As I mentioned, his ranged output is fairly limited, and extra 1" of run and charge distance aside, he's undeniably slow - he can't even ride in any transports, to my knowledge, due to his type.

Tarpitting him doesn't seem terribly viable, unless the tarpit is extraordinarily durable - nothing we have as Tau could do it, and I doubt anything short of 2++ rerollable saves or Invisibility-protected units will last more than a round or two.

Killing everything around him does seem like the way to go, though at his relatively cheap price, that might be a lot of targets to annihilate...

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Panzer
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#4 » Mar 04 2017 04:52

Yeah I don't really worry about him.
Taking him means the Ultramarine player has to take a CAD limiting him from taking the more nasty formations to some degree.
Plus most of the Drop Pod guys (which is usually most of the army these days) would be out of range of his aura the first 1-2 turns. So if one wants to include RG in their list they'd probably take a more classical approach with less Drop Pods giving us more room to breath.

Since he can only crawl over the board with his 6" movement and being obviously durable there really is no reason to shoot at him. He is a force multiplier with a big nasty weapon. Kill off his force and he won't have anything to multiply anymore and we can dance around him.


Something to concern though would be a Librarius Conclave supporting RG.

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Raverrn
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#5 » Mar 04 2017 05:11

Yeah, as soon as he's paired up with anyone with a movement psyker power things get really, really dangerous. He can start gobbling units pretty quickly.

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Unicornsilovethem
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#6 » Mar 04 2017 07:15

Darkstrider in a Gunfort can still snipe him. Each individual shot has 0.97*1/3*5/6 probability of insta-killing him, so with three shots you get just above 60% chance to remove him in a single round of shooting. You can't do anything about the revive, except to shoot him again next turn.

edit
His stats are fairly beastly, with ... Eternal Warrior

Well that obviously changes things. However, I don't see Eternal Warrior mentioned anywhere in the link you provided?

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#7 » Mar 04 2017 10:08

Unusualsuspect wrote:He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

Sure he can. ICs can't join monstrous creatures. But ICs who are monstrous creatures can still join units without other ICs in them, I do believe.

I think he can get in vehicles, too, but if he does he obviously won't be able to use his bubble.

GuidingOlive
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#8 » Mar 04 2017 01:44

Ok so from a Competitive stand you should not spend the points on RG. He's a powerhouse in melee (sounds familiar Abaddon) but has very few options to get in close. No vehicles can transport him because Monstrous Creatures can't embark (that's only infantry and special exceptions). He can't join a unit (He's a Monstrous Creature (Character) not (Independent Character)). Personally as Tau, we can run circles around him. However, if you're forced to play against him you would do well to keep away. I would just D Missile him then use a Heavy Burst Cannon for when he got back up. Taking down 3 wounds is a lot easier than 6 otherwise and we'd pour a lot of fire into him. But of other things that could work, move block him with drones and make him charge into you. Always have two lines of drones.
But when playing against him on the whole, just kill the units he's supporting. Oh and immediately nix psykers, especially any with Gate of Infinity.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#9 » Mar 04 2017 05:19

GuidingOlive wrote:He can't join a unit (He's a Monstrous Creature (Character) not (Independent Character)).
Pretty Sure IC is a special rule, not a subtype.

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#10 » Mar 04 2017 11:17

SinisterSamurai wrote:
Unusualsuspect wrote:He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

Sure he can. ICs can't join monstrous creatures. But ICs who are monstrous creatures can still join units without other ICs in them, I do believe.


No, he can't.

Main FAQ, pg 7, 2nd column, 4th full paragraph from the top"
Q: If a Monstrous Creature is also an Independent Character,
can it join other units? Can other Independent Characters then
join the unit that the Monstrous Creature is now a part of?
A: No, to both question.




[
SinisterSamurai wrote:I think he can get in vehicles, too, but if he does he obviously won't be able to use his bubble.


I'm fairly sure he can't, unless the transport specifically says otherwise.

Warhammer 40k rulebook, Transport Capacity:
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.


If Jump Infantry and Jet Pack Infantry are barred by default, the beasts, cavalry, and Monstrous Creatures are also presumably barred.

As for getting Guilliman around the board, there's always Electrodisplacement. You'd need the psyker with that power in the group that Guilliman substitutes for, though.

GuidingOlive
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#11 » Mar 05 2017 05:46

Messed up my wording there a bit. I meant to say that Jump and Jet Pack Infantry are "Infantry" and they are allowed to embark. It's just they usually have rules that make them less desirable in transports (Jet-Pack confers Very Bulky for example).

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Panzer
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#12 » Mar 05 2017 01:13

You guys. :D

Yes he has Eternal Warrior, so no you can't snipe him properly.

And no he obviously can't join units nor embark in vehicles. Independent Character IS a subtype but even if he had it the FAQ prevents him from joining units just like our Coldstar Commander. ;)

Jacket
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#13 » Mar 05 2017 09:19

Allegedly at the end of the book he goes on a new crusade. I wonder where who is target is?

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Panzer
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#14 » Mar 06 2017 02:42

Also on a sidenote the formation with Cato and Sternguard/Vanguard Veterans is supposed to let him LOS! wounds onto them when he is in 3" range or so.
Whether that means that you still have to wound against his T6 or not is unclear though. Guess we'll have to wait for some proper screenshots of those rules.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#15 » Mar 06 2017 10:59

I apologise. I had forgotten about the FAQ.
Panzer wrote:Independent Character IS a subtype but even if he had it the FAQ prevents him from joining units just like our Coldstar Commander. ;)


All of the Tau HQs are "Infantry (Character)" or "Jet Pack Infantry (Character)." I have yet to see a datasheet in any current codex that has "[Unit Type] (Independent Character)." That's because Independent Character is a special rule, not a subtype. But this discussion is now moot because the rest of have been revealed, and as you say, Independent Character isn't among them.

MasterCraft
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#16 » Apr 20 2017 01:04

So I have a (for fun) game this weekend where my opponent is bringing Guilliman and I am using my Stromsurge for the first time. I'd like to share with you the units that I have. Basically, I'm looking for tips and tactics on fighting him. Not sure of his list, he's not super competitive but plans on bringing a stormraven and another flyer. Playing at 2000pts.

I'm deathly afraid of flyers to so I planned on taking VT on my surge and broadside. Want to make sure I have enough to deal with them.

Units I own:
-Commander
-Fireblade
-Darkstrider
-Ethereal
-2x FW squads w/Fish
-14 Kroot
-10 Hounds
-All types of drones
-10 PFs (all MLs)
-3 Crisis (2x Plasma)
-2 Crisis (2x Melta)
-2x Stealth (all burst cannons)
-Riptide
-R'Varna
-Stormsurge (PDC)
-2 Misslesides
-1 Railside
-Hammerhead (rail and Longstrike)

Thanks in advance.

MasterCraft
Shas'Saal
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#17 » Apr 30 2017 08:55

With 8th ed on the horizon I find it not so necessary at this point for feedback on my prior request. However, I would like to share my experience with fighting Guilliman.

In preparation I intentionally built a static list that had little to no mobility. I was prepared to batten down the hatches and dig in. As far as fighting Guilliman it proved effective. I threw pretty much everything I could at hime for 2 rounds and he only took 1 wound. It wasn't until he got in range of my Fireblade and Warriors that whittled him down. That and a whole lot of luck as he never resurrected.

On the other hand it left me in trouble with scoring objectives. I couldn't move anywhere because my opponent was aggressively dropping pods and flying up to my front lines. While the game ended in a 13 to 5 Tau victory, it was only because a unit of terms failed a moral check that I was able to gain the upper hand.

Because those terms failed, when the game continued past turn 5 I was able to draw more objectives (malestrom: escalation). Because my opponent had nothing really left I had free reign to grab all my objectives. Lesson learned though. Always have maneuverability. ;)

R.D.
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#18 » Apr 30 2017 11:12

Jacket wrote:Allegedly at the end of the book he goes on a new crusade. I wonder where who is target is?


Judging by the latest trailer, he's focusing on Chaos (and given the state of the galaxy, rather sensibly enough...)

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