Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 492

Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#1 » Mar 03 2017 06:41

Well, we finally have the rules leaked (pretty much entirely through the Warhammer twitch channel, apparently) for nothing less than The Primarch of the Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman.

His stats are fairly beastly, with all 6s except WS and Leadership (9 and 10, respectively), the Monstrous Creature (character) type, 2+/3++/5+++, Eternal Warrior, and a host of other special rules.

He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

The Blade of the Emperor really lives up to its name. He hits like a Railgun solid shot (or if he rolls a 6 to hit, with D strength) and more special rules than you could shake a stick at. He also is given the option of giving up his 6 attacks to attack every unit within 1" of him with an attack per model in that unit - Tarpitting this Primarch is just not going to happen.

Edit: Some rumors suggest it only allows attacks against models within 1" of Guilliman, not ALL models in ALL units. Either way, it's pretty potent after a consolidation move or two.

He also has an incredible 12" radius aura, as he incorporates ALL of the Command Warlord traits.

And even if you put him down for good, he can get up the next turn (with no limit on the number of resurrections) with 1d3 wounds on a 4+. Putting him down permanently is going to be a bit of a challenge.

His own ranged capabilities seem limited to an 24" Assault 3 6/2 rending weapon - nasty, but not even a match for an Ion Accelerator. His 12" radius aura does boost shooting around him, though - he's likely not a potent threat at range for his points, so playing keep-away seems worthwhile.


We don't know his points, but his defenses make him more durable than a Nova-ing Riptide with Stims (though only by 1 wound). Aside from unloading Stormsurge Destroyer Missiles into Guilliman's face, how best to deal with this slow-moving engine of annihilation?

Edit: He is rumored (by a fairly reputable source on Dakkadakka) to be 350 points. I'd expect to see him in a lot of Imperial armies, once he's released.
Last edited by Unusualsuspect on Mar 04 2017 04:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Posts: 965

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#2 » Mar 03 2017 09:05

My recommendation is to kill every unit within 12" of him.

Let this guy wreck stuff one unit at a time. It's the buffs he gives other units that threaten the army.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 492

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#3 » Mar 03 2017 09:11

As I mentioned, his ranged output is fairly limited, and extra 1" of run and charge distance aside, he's undeniably slow - he can't even ride in any transports, to my knowledge, due to his type.

Tarpitting him doesn't seem terribly viable, unless the tarpit is extraordinarily durable - nothing we have as Tau could do it, and I doubt anything short of 2++ rerollable saves or Invisibility-protected units will last more than a round or two.

Killing everything around him does seem like the way to go, though at his relatively cheap price, that might be a lot of targets to annihilate...

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 1175

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#4 » Mar 04 2017 04:52

Yeah I don't really worry about him.
Taking him means the Ultramarine player has to take a CAD limiting him from taking the more nasty formations to some degree.
Plus most of the Drop Pod guys (which is usually most of the army these days) would be out of range of his aura the first 1-2 turns. So if one wants to include RG in their list they'd probably take a more classical approach with less Drop Pods giving us more room to breath.

Since he can only crawl over the board with his 6" movement and being obviously durable there really is no reason to shoot at him. He is a force multiplier with a big nasty weapon. Kill off his force and he won't have anything to multiply anymore and we can dance around him.


Something to concern though would be a Librarius Conclave supporting RG.

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Raverrn
Shas'La
Posts: 144

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#5 » Mar 04 2017 05:11

Yeah, as soon as he's paired up with anyone with a movement psyker power things get really, really dangerous. He can start gobbling units pretty quickly.

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#6 » Mar 04 2017 07:15

Darkstrider in a Gunfort can still snipe him. Each individual shot has 0.97*1/3*5/6 probability of insta-killing him, so with three shots you get just above 60% chance to remove him in a single round of shooting. You can't do anything about the revive, except to shoot him again next turn.

edit
His stats are fairly beastly, with ... Eternal Warrior

Well that obviously changes things. However, I don't see Eternal Warrior mentioned anywhere in the link you provided?

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
Posts: 359

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#7 » Mar 04 2017 10:08

Unusualsuspect wrote:He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

Sure he can. ICs can't join monstrous creatures. But ICs who are monstrous creatures can still join units without other ICs in them, I do believe.

I think he can get in vehicles, too, but if he does he obviously won't be able to use his bubble.

GuidingOlive
Shas'Saal
Posts: 45

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#8 » Mar 04 2017 01:44

Ok so from a Competitive stand you should not spend the points on RG. He's a powerhouse in melee (sounds familiar Abaddon) but has very few options to get in close. No vehicles can transport him because Monstrous Creatures can't embark (that's only infantry and special exceptions). He can't join a unit (He's a Monstrous Creature (Character) not (Independent Character)). Personally as Tau, we can run circles around him. However, if you're forced to play against him you would do well to keep away. I would just D Missile him then use a Heavy Burst Cannon for when he got back up. Taking down 3 wounds is a lot easier than 6 otherwise and we'd pour a lot of fire into him. But of other things that could work, move block him with drones and make him charge into you. Always have two lines of drones.
But when playing against him on the whole, just kill the units he's supporting. Oh and immediately nix psykers, especially any with Gate of Infinity.

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SinisterSamurai
Kor'La
Posts: 359

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#9 » Mar 04 2017 05:19

GuidingOlive wrote:He can't join a unit (He's a Monstrous Creature (Character) not (Independent Character)).
Pretty Sure IC is a special rule, not a subtype.

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Unusualsuspect
Kroot'Ui
Posts: 492

Re: Guilliman returns: Dealing with an Imperial Primarch

Post#10 » Mar 04 2017 11:17

SinisterSamurai wrote:
Unusualsuspect wrote:He won't be able to hide himself into a unit, but with his statline, that would seem like a waste anyway - he's a one-man wrecking crew.

Sure he can. ICs can't join monstrous creatures. But ICs who are monstrous creatures can still join units without other ICs in them, I do believe.


No, he can't.

Main FAQ, pg 7, 2nd column, 4th full paragraph from the top"
Q: If a Monstrous Creature is also an Independent Character,
can it join other units? Can other Independent Characters then
join the unit that the Monstrous Creature is now a part of?
A: No, to both question.




[
SinisterSamurai wrote:I think he can get in vehicles, too, but if he does he obviously won't be able to use his bubble.


I'm fairly sure he can't, unless the transport specifically says otherwise.

Warhammer 40k rulebook, Transport Capacity:
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise.


If Jump Infantry and Jet Pack Infantry are barred by default, the beasts, cavalry, and Monstrous Creatures are also presumably barred.

As for getting Guilliman around the board, there's always Electrodisplacement. You'd need the psyker with that power in the group that Guilliman substitutes for, though.

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