KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

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Kakapo42
Shas'Vre
Posts: 881

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#343 » Mar 16 2017 09:33

Grogalmighty wrote:People love to complain about the Nexus. They really do, forgetting that the damn thing has blind, and is a st 10 ordnance weapon. Yeah it won't erase titans but it WILL flash-fry mobs, especially nids, orcs and guard.


I think the reason why people tend to gloss over those attributes is that with all the many, many, many S5 shots they can bring to the table, flash frying mobs is something that the Tau don't have any difficulty with - even a simple Firewarrior team can put a serious dent in most swarms of light targets. On the other hand, something the Tau do struggle with is superheavy units, with very few units (and virtually none bellow superheavy class) able to quickly erase a superheavy unit before it can do serious damage, and with the increasing number of such superheavy units being fielded in most areas the priority for armament will generally go towards countering those.

In other words, the Nexus suffers from the same problem that Skyrays did in 5th edition - it's not a bad choice, just somewhat redundant and coming at the opportunity cost of equipment that many people really need from the Ta'unar. You can always shoot a large mob of Gaunts or Boyz or Guardsmen to death with massed pulse and SMS fire, but if you need to delete a Titan then your options are more limited.

That's not to say that the Nexus doesn't have a place - I can see it being a very useful support weapon for battlesuit-heavy lists that feature a large number of plasma rifles and fusion blasters for countering armoured targets, for example, as such a force is likely to lack the weight of fire that other Tau lists can throw around and thus face some difficulty with swarms otherwise, but I can't imagine most Tau players looking at different armaments for their Ta'unar and saying "I don't need something that can eliminate superheavy targets, I need more anti-swarm firepower."
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Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
Posts: 40

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#344 » Mar 17 2017 10:44

As much as I see this argument a lot... I need to disagree. Superheavies are not invincible and we have good solutions for them.

Specifically, the Ghostkeel and Riptide. Fusion collider/Fusion blaster Ghostkeels are amazing, and riptides with fusion blasters, along a ripple fire nova option make them ASTONISHINGLY good at killing superheavies. Six melta shots can destroy a baneblade, ruin a knight titan and cause a LOT of pain to anything bigger. the reason being the beautiful AP1, and a 5+ to cause an additional d3 damage.

Even if I loathe the option, Hammerheads in squadron do just as well, three ST10 ap 1 shots, along with tank hunters makes them a dead-killy option. I would contest that we have more problems with Gargantuan creatures then superheavy vehicles.

In retrospect I think what we have a lacking of are more "Contemporary" anti-tank weapons. We are so used to seeing dedicated anti-armor squads when most of our units are designed to take on multiple target types. We don't have devastator squads or heavy weapons teams. the closest thing we have is the Broadside team, which now has been consigned to squad-mulching or anti-aircraft duty. We are expected to fill in the gaps by ourselves without someone holding our hands. If you want to kill a super-heavy, you need to take the fusionkeels, drop-fusion squads, etc. If something is resistant to melta, you need to find other options like fire warriors with EMP grenades or take some Hammerheads.

Superheavies are, for the most part, overrated. Knight Titans are out-firepowered by a leman-russ team on a regular basis, and even armies of them are high-skill, high risk, high reward armies. The bigger stuff, like Warhounds and up, are rarely encountered but still suffer the same consequences of being chain-reactioned to death.

Personally, I like this limitation to our army. It forces us to think smarter about our choices, and if we want a solid solution, we have to put out 600 points for it. Make no mistake, the Supremacy Armor is a match for the Warhound Titan, and only costs 150 points less for a much harder to kill platform. We can't take turbo-laser destroyers on each arm, but the heavy rail cannon is a FANTASTIC weapon. I would seriously like to see a battle between the two just to see who would win. (I would take the Rail Cannon, one Tri-axis and one eradicator for that fight... those void shields!)

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#345 » Mar 18 2017 04:38

Grogalmighty wrote:Specifically, the Ghostkeel and Riptide. Fusion collider/Fusion blaster Ghostkeels are amazing

Yeaaaaaaaah...no. Fusion Collider are not better than Fusion Blaster and we can get plenty of those for less points elsewhere. They are okay-ish at best but not amazing. I'd bring a bunch of dual FB Crisis for anti-AV14 duty anytime over a Ghostkeel (unless it has weak rear armor of course). :D

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#346 » Mar 18 2017 08:29

Good super-heavies/gargantuans will kill Ghostkeels and Riptides like they were nothing. Also, Stomp.
Fusion weaponry is too short-ranged to use on such expensive platforms.

As Panzer said, Crisis is the best melta-totting platform we have. Or, even better, Stormsurge/Taunar to deal with the big ones.

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#347 » Mar 18 2017 09:10

The Y'vahra ion gun is brutal against knights and similar. Perhaps not as useful against the very heaviest vehicles, since S8 isn't that good against AV13+, but against AV12 it's amazing.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 338

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#348 » Mar 18 2017 11:40

I agree Fusion Colliders are worse than regular ones. The small blast is definitely worse than just having an accurate shot. The Ghostkeel is an excellent upper mid tier unit, but ultimately it is not useful for it's collider. My preferred fusion is still suicide fusion suits and the Ta'unar of course with its secondaries (depending on targets).

Y'vahrah is indeed brutal. It's very nearly a super heavy killer, but falls short of being able to kill the absolute strongest of the units.

I think at this point we have units to take care of super heavies. I would like to see one more option. A hovering aircraft sort of like a Tau version of a helicopter gunship. Tau also need to have some way of dealing with deathstars, which is now our worst threat out their on the field. I think we need a sort of... electronic warfare unit to support us. It would be stealthy, frail, and weakly armed. However it would buff other units around it and another version debuff enemy units. Anyways this last part is pure speculation on my part and off topic just a random musing.

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#349 » Mar 19 2017 06:42

Jacket wrote:I think at this point we have units to take care of super heavies. I would like to see one more option. A hovering aircraft sort of like a Tau version of a helicopter gunship.


Remoras can hover and pack quite the weaponry before expending their missiles

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#350 » Mar 19 2017 02:40

Just on a quick note:
Played a 2v1 game with 1500p + 1500p Tyranids vs 3000p of Astra Militarum with a Baneblade mixed with a bit of Space Wolves.
Got a Crisis unit with 3x TL Fusion Blaster and 3x CIB and got lucky with the warlord trait roll so I could outflank them. It went as followed without any Markerlight support during the whole scene:
- Crisis arrived behind the Baneblade, took 2 HP with the Fusion Blaster and 3 with the CIB
- Crisis get assaulted by Grey Hunter through a narrow space between a rock and his Wyvern so only 3 got into basecontact limiting the amount of attacks
- Crisis unit loses 2 of the 3 suits and the last one remains with 1 wound, luckily the Grey Hunter fail their LD test by 1 and run off his edge by 1" so the Crisis is free again
- Meanwhile a Carnifex charges the Baneblade, takes 2 more HP and dies
- finally the last Crisis gets behind the Baneblade again, fails to glance with his Fusion Blaster but takes the two last HP with his CIB


Now that was a very specific string of events that happened there but yes Crisis are indeed able to deal some serious damage to Superheavies and it would've been even better with some Markerlight support. ;)

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Unicornsilovethem
Shas'Saal
Posts: 278

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#351 » Mar 20 2017 02:29

Panzer wrote: - Crisis arrived behind the Baneblade, took 2 HP with the Fusion Blaster and 3 with the CIB

- finally the last Crisis gets behind the Baneblade again, fails to glance with his Fusion Blaster but takes the two last HP with his CIB

CIB confirmed better than Fusion

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2256

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#352 » Mar 20 2017 04:33

Unicornsilovethem wrote:
Panzer wrote: - Crisis arrived behind the Baneblade, took 2 HP with the Fusion Blaster and 3 with the CIB

- finally the last Crisis gets behind the Baneblade again, fails to glance with his Fusion Blaster but takes the two last HP with his CIB

CIB confirmed better than Fusion

Haha yeah I always get kinda lucky with CIBs i feel. :D

Considering that this unit normally has Tank Hunter and Markerlight Support as well I feel kinda confident to deal with Baneblades now if I get lucky and get the infiltrate warlord trait to let them outflank. :P

Grogalmighty
Shas'Saal
Posts: 40

Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#353 » Mar 20 2017 02:47

Gonna have to disagree. I find them both amazingly useful in their own context. I don't believe in mathhammer, I believe in results on the table.

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Panzer
Shas'La
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Re: KX-139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour discussion

Post#354 » Mar 20 2017 03:20

Grogalmighty wrote:Gonna have to disagree. I find them both amazingly useful in their own context. I don't believe in mathhammer, I believe in results on the table.

Obviously, or else you probably wouldn't have made that long comment about how useful the Fusion Collider is. :roll:

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