XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 78

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#19 » Sep 13 2017 12:32

Getting the boost to save savioured wounds on a 5+ is a nice boon for shield drones, but I have no idea why you would shoot 3+ shield drones ever, especially what you want to kill is the Riptide variant. If you shoot the suit, you bypass the 3+ and the drones only live on a 5+ for each damage taken.

If you're talking about using 3+ drones to shield characters, that's a whole other thing. But a opponent that shoots the wrong units isn't a strength of the models.

Folix
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#20 » Sep 13 2017 09:25

Ok so am i missing something? What on earth is the point of the sheild drone if you cant confer wounds to it and get a save? Might as well take a gun drone. The MV drone attached to the yavarha is pointless unless you can confer its 3+ invul. If you cant there is no need to take it at all unless im missing something.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1296

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#21 » Sep 13 2017 09:39

Folix wrote:Ok so am i missing something? What on earth is the point of the sheild drone if you cant confer wounds to it and get a save? Might as well take a gun drone. The MV drone attached to the yavarha is pointless unless you can confer its 3+ invul. If you cant there is no need to take it at all unless im missing something.


Yep, it's a pretty weak and unnecessary unit.

Variant
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#22 » Sep 14 2017 03:16

Ah, the Y'varha. I remember when she first came out on forgeworld. I thought her model looked awesome and got one with judicious efficiency. The feedback on her usefulness thus far is accurate and pretty extensive so I won't reiterate any of those points. But I do have a few observations from personal experience that I thought I'd throw into the mix.

The general consensus from what I've read is that the Y'varha is very good. She will generally make back her points when fielded. This is very true, but there are two points I want to bring up. Firstly, while she is powerful, she cannot be the linchpin of your army. Don't expect the Y'varha to take on an entire opposing force on her own. She will require a degree of support and synergy with the rest of your army. With that said, there will be certain army lists and instances where the Y'varha doesn't fit as well. Keep in mind that the Y'varha is a dedicated assault unit. Most of our assault weapons are 18", short by our standards. The Y'varha takes this to the extreme by having an 8" flamer and a 12" ion cannon. This means that she will almost always be close to the enemy and her presence will generally mean the opponent will give her his full and undivided attention. Although the Y'varha is tough, she cannot take the firepower of an entire enemy army. My personal preference is to back up my Y'varha with deep striking elements from the rest of my army. Push her into the enemy forces as my deep strikers land, opening up multiple close ranged threats for my opponent to deal with. This isn't the only way to build some support around the Y'varha but I think illustrates the idea that she does need support. The Y'varha is too expensive to be a one shot wonder.

The second point is to give her some time. In my experience, as a close range assault unit, her performance can be somewhat inconsistent. I've had games where she destroys a unit every turn and was single handedly responsible for collapsing a flank. I've also had games where she gets hit by a super smite for six damage and spends the rest of the game hobbling along getting nothing done. This is the nature of how she works so give the Y'varha a few games before passing judgement.

Arka0415 wrote:
Folix wrote:Ok so am i missing something? What on earth is the point of the sheild drone if you cant confer wounds to it and get a save? Might as well take a gun drone. The MV drone attached to the yavarha is pointless unless you can confer its 3+ invul. If you cant there is no need to take it at all unless im missing something.


Yep, it's a pretty weak and unnecessary unit.


From what I've seen, the shield drone has always been extremely divisive. Some people swear by them and their usefulness as wound soaks while others decry them as basically useless and far inferior to a gun drone. I can see the merits of both sides of the argument but I am of the opinion that shield drones are useful because they are an excellent little wrench to throw into the plans of your opponent.

This is best illustrated with a Y'varha. Since the Y'varha is such a big battlesuit with high toughness, your opponent will probably want to put his high strength guns into her, things like lascannons or krak missiles. If one lands and manages to wound, you can than use savior protocol to push the hit onto a drone. Remember that savior protocol allows your drones to block the hit by taking a single mortal wound, not by taking the hit itself. This means that a single 5+ can prevent damage from virtually any weapon in the game. Even if this fails, your drone just blocked D6 damage from the suit. Most armies cannot focus that much high strength firepower onto a single unit meaning that your shield drones can potentially buy multiple additional turns for your Y'varha to do damage. We also need to consider the alternatives available to your opponent in dealing with drones and I think it is here that shield drones distinguish themselves from gun drones. Your opponent can choose to target your shield drones with small arms fire, clearing them away so that they cannot intercept the hits from the big guns. However, the shield drone's shield generator gives them a 4++ invul (3++ in the Y'varha drone's case) and a 5+++ FNP since the FNP works for any wound, not just savior protocol wounds. These are things a gun drone does not get which can make shield drones an annoyingly resilient ablative wound that clings to your battlesuit and refuses to be shot off. Does this make shield drones better than gun drones? Not necessarily. It comes down to personal preference and opinion. I just think anything that forces your opponent to jump through more hoops to get your guys off the board is worth it.

Wow, this post got long. Sorry for the wall of text.

User avatar
QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 230

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#23 » Sep 14 2017 08:45

Variant wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Folix wrote:Ok so am i missing something? What on earth is the point of the sheild drone if you cant confer wounds to it and get a save? Might as well take a gun drone. The MV drone attached to the yavarha is pointless unless you can confer its 3+ invul. If you cant there is no need to take it at all unless im missing something.


Yep, it's a pretty weak and unnecessary unit.


From what I've seen, the shield drone has always been extremely divisive. Some people swear by them and their usefulness as wound soaks while others decry them as basically useless and far inferior to a gun drone. I can see the merits of both sides of the argument but I am of the opinion that shield drones are useful because they are an excellent little wrench to throw into the plans of your opponent.

This is best illustrated with a Y'varha. Since the Y'varha is such a big battlesuit with high toughness, your opponent will probably want to put his high strength guns into her, things like lascannons or krak missiles. If one lands and manages to wound, you can than use savior protocol to push the hit onto a drone. Remember that savior protocol allows your drones to block the hit by taking a single mortal wound, not by taking the hit itself. This means that a single 5+ can prevent damage from virtually any weapon in the game. Even if this fails, your drone just blocked D6 damage from the suit. Most armies cannot focus that much high strength firepower onto a single unit meaning that your shield drones can potentially buy multiple additional turns for your Y'varha to do damage. We also need to consider the alternatives available to your opponent in dealing with drones and I think it is here that shield drones distinguish themselves from gun drones. Your opponent can choose to target your shield drones with small arms fire, clearing them away so that they cannot intercept the hits from the big guns. However, the shield drone's shield generator gives them a 4++ invul (3++ in the Y'varha drone's case) and a 5+++ FNP since the FNP works for any wound, not just savior protocol wounds. These are things a gun drone does not get which can make shield drones an annoyingly resilient ablative wound that clings to your battlesuit and refuses to be shot off. Does this make shield drones better than gun drones? Not necessarily. It comes down to personal preference and opinion. I just think anything that forces your opponent to jump through more hoops to get your guys off the board is worth it.

Wow, this post got long. Sorry for the wall of text.


I am going to agree with Variant's assessment of shield drones and add one additional factor. With the Y'Vahra needing to be close to the enemy to be effective utilizing shield drones from the Y'Vahra and from deep striking assets as a wall can help blunt a charge. Chargers would have to contend with their invul and shield save to remove them.

AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 78

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#24 » Sep 14 2017 03:43

I did just re-read the Errata and I'm way more optimistic about drones, but I want to be sure that I'm interpreting this correctly.

From the Xenos 2 Rules errata:
Saviour Protocols: If a <Sept> Drones unit is within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit when an enemy attack successfully wounds it, you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.’

Because of "when an enemy attack successfully wounds it" you are able to negate the full damage of the attack, but the drone takes a mortal wound. Even with a 5++ for the mortal wound, that would actually make shield drones servicable.

I had thought you had to roll a 5++ for each damage because I was under the impression that it works like Catalyst for Tyranids and Disgustingly Resilient for Death Guard, when you roll for each damage taken.

For Example:

From the Xenos 2 Rules errata:
"Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time that unit loses a wound, roll a D6; on a 5+ the unit does not lose that wound.’"

Because the trigger is "loses a wound" you're actually rolling for each point of damage taken, as opposed to "successfully wounds" which would presumably where you make a save.

Or to put it another way, if I need 6 drones to pass off each damage from a perfect D6 damage roll I'll pass on Shield Drones, but if I only need 1 drone for a lascannon hit I'm happy to mix and match.

Am I understanding this correctly?

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#25 » Sep 15 2017 03:02

A successful wound is when someone managed the to-wound roll. It's before saves and before rolling for damage. So yes you need only one Drone per Lascannon wound.

AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 78

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#26 » Sep 15 2017 09:48

Well, that's enough to have a bunch of shield drones lying around and be very useful.

I recant, they're a lot better than I thought they were. I was using the metric of a different mechanic, which would have made them awful.

Folix
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#27 » Sep 15 2017 12:12

Hmmmm Im reading the yavahra rule sheet.

It states for the mv52 drones that it passes a "wound" not a mortal wound. In fact it doesn't say anything to do with a mortal wound. Raw on that data slate a wound is then savable by both the 3+/5+.

Both myself and another fellow read the rule that way when we played. No where does it say when the wound is allocated via saviour protocol to a mv52 drone from a yavarha that it a mortal wound.

So until then I'm running them as a 3+/5+.

I sent a email to forgeworld asking clarification.

User avatar
QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 230

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#28 » Sep 15 2017 12:46

Folix wrote:Hmmmm Im reading the yavahra rule sheet.

It states for the mv52 drones that it passes a "wound" not a mortal wound. In fact it doesn't say anything to do with a mortal wound. Raw on that data slate a wound is then savable by both the 3+/5+.

Both myself and another fellow read the rule that way when we played. No where does it say when the wound is allocated via saviour protocol to a mv52 drone from a yavarha that it a mortal wound.

So until then I'm running them as a 3+/5+.

I sent a email to forgeworld asking clarification.


The rules were updated in the FAQ.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... ge-post-2/

Folix
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#29 » Sep 15 2017 02:05

Well there goes my hope plane crashing to the ground like a flaming blimp. Crap. So really better off with the repair drones really.

User avatar
QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 230

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#30 » Sep 15 2017 02:33

Folix wrote:Well there goes my hope plane crashing to the ground like a flaming blimp. Crap. So really better off with the repair drones really.


Honestly, I am still a big fan of shield drones. Repair drones are easy to remove with normal shooting, where shield drones are very hardy. That said, using a combination of both might actually be beneficial since the technical drone can repair damage from the Nova Reactor, while the shield drones can act as a damage sink against higher damage shots.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#31 » Sep 15 2017 03:04

The Shield Drones are still extremely good. Finally worth taking with their FnP. No opponent will shoot directly at them due the T4 4++ 5+++ and shooting at the actual target just to see a Lascannon or Melta shot get soaked up by a Shield Drone is great as well.
Best is the face of your opponent when you manage multiple 5+++ after another. I think secretly my group thinks Shield Drones are broken but don't dare to say so because they really don't do anything on their own and Crisis don't do enough to cry about it either. :D

User avatar
QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 230

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#32 » Sep 15 2017 03:27

Panzer wrote:The Shield Drones are still extremely good. Finally worth taking with their FnP. No opponent will shoot directly at them due the T4 4++ 5+++ and shooting at the actual target just to see a Lascannon or Melta shot get soaked up by a Shield Drone is great as well.
Best is the face of your opponent when you manage multiple 5+++ after another. I think secretly my group thinks Shield Drones are broken but don't dare to say so because they really don't do anything on their own and Crisis don't do enough to cry about it either. :D


I had a shield drone soak two hits from a Leman Russ battle cannon and a flamer on overwatch, bounce all of it, then kill the Leman Russ in melee. (It only had one wound left). It was an all around statistically improbable set of rolls. I really should give that one a special mark.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 2909

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#33 » Sep 15 2017 03:34

QimRas wrote:
Panzer wrote:The Shield Drones are still extremely good. Finally worth taking with their FnP. No opponent will shoot directly at them due the T4 4++ 5+++ and shooting at the actual target just to see a Lascannon or Melta shot get soaked up by a Shield Drone is great as well.
Best is the face of your opponent when you manage multiple 5+++ after another. I think secretly my group thinks Shield Drones are broken but don't dare to say so because they really don't do anything on their own and Crisis don't do enough to cry about it either. :D


I had a shield drone soak two hits from a Leman Russ battle cannon and a flamer on overwatch, bounce all of it, then kill the Leman Russ in melee. (It only had one wound left). It was an all around statistically improbable set of rolls. I really should give that one a special mark.

You definitely should! And then watch it getting killed by everything first chance because it's marked and you pay more attention to what happens to that specific Drone. :D

User avatar
QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 230

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#34 » Sep 15 2017 06:00

Probably will get focused down in the first turn. Him and DerpDrone can hang out together and see how long they last.

But yeah, shield drones rock. Take them. Maybe take some tech drones too to give you the option to fix Nova Reactor wounds.

Return to “Tau Tactics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Nymphomanius and 5 guests