Upcoming T'au Codex

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Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#343 » Sep 13 2017 11:20

Glarblar wrote:Salamander CT would make Railsides hella good


But they would have to write a new list anyway as half the chapter tactics are either useless (we already have the ultramarine CT on battlesuit) or unkeeping with that tau playstyle (see black templars and white scars)

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Glarblar
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#344 » Sep 13 2017 12:08

of course, but something were you could reroll to hit and to wound rolls for Rail weapons would make them so much more appealing to take.

Klapaucius87
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#345 » Sep 13 2017 12:38

Maybe is just my impression, but aren't chapter rules getting more complex as codex get released?

Nymphomanius
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#346 » Sep 13 2017 12:43

Actually if you think of it if each UNIT could RR 1 hit amd wound in each phase not only would quad Fusion Commander be even better single markerlight drones would be pretty good just like Firesight marksman and fireblade.

MSU would be the name of the game indeed.

On the flip side I can't even begin to imagine what Sept tactics would be relevant for us, though I'm hoping combined fire makes a return as a stratagen

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#347 » Sep 13 2017 12:53

An Infiltation Stratagem would be sweet....infiltrating Breacher ftw. :D


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Arka0415
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#349 » Sep 13 2017 07:14

Nymphomanius wrote:Septs will probably get the same treatment as marine chapters everyone in the Sept can do X or is affected by Y.

Don't know what those will be but I would love a tau version of raven guard / alpha Legion

Or the salamander chapter tactics might make crisis suits and broadsides more appealing but that's just speculation.


I think Chapter Tactics (and hopefully, by extension Sept rules) are pretty nuanced. It's not like "Imperial Fists get good infantry" or "White Scars get good bikes" or something like that. In older editions, Marks of Chaos were like that- Nurgle got +1T, Khorne got +1A, etc. But now, the broad abilities granted by these sub-faction perks are less about stats, and more about, well, perks! The Raven Guard Chapter Tactic + Chapter Strategem allow for gunline-style gameplay, or assault forces that can safely close distance. Hopefully we see Sept abilities that are passive abilities/perks with lots of utility.

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Glarblar
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#350 » Sep 14 2017 12:35

Image
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very interesting stratagems revealed today

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#351 » Sep 14 2017 12:42

The Dogma is pretty meh imo, but the Stratagems are incredibly good. Teleporting Knight ftw and a solid firebase with Kastellan+Kataphron(+Dominus)!

Folklore
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#352 » Sep 14 2017 01:12

I think that 8th introduced some subtle changes that had HUGE unintentional ramifications for the T'au army. Overall I love the changes made in this edition but combined they present some real design challenges for the T'au codex.

1. Movement in the game is much more dynamic. The average mobility of a unit is way higher (especially for CC units) making gun lines way more vulnerable. This also makes weapon ranges way less important. Most of our weapons put us well within threat range of anything we are shooting at.

2. Cover is way less impactful. By removing cover saves they further weakened gun lines and reduced the power of things that ignore cover. It’s basically the same as -1 AP and we can put that on any suit for 5 pts.

3. Changed AP into a modifier instead of a "gate". Access to a wide range of AP weapons on different platforms was another strength of our army that just isn't that important any more.

4. Changes to the psychic phase have made life even more difficult for non-psychers.

5. Setting BS at 4+ and having a dice roll determine damage, turns precision and tactics into a crap shoot. Higher variability of our damage output means we have to over commit to make sure we bring down a target.

To recap - The changes they made to the core rules of movement, cover, AP, psychic phase, and shooting accuracy all negatively impact the traditional T'au play styles.

T'au are in a tough spot AtM. We really only participate in one damage dealing phase of the game. But if you make us too good in ranged combat then we run the risk of ruining the game for everyone else with our alpha strike. Our mobility used to be our biggest utility + survivability trick but as I pointed out it’s much harder to keep your distance and take advantage of cover. I think savior protocols are an ingenious way to add some durability to the army but that advantage is way too easy for an opponent to remove. For my money I think the most interesting avenue for the new codex would be exploring the interactions between CC and shooting. i.e. expanding our overwatch capabilities and finding better ways to take advantage of the Fly key word. I love the idea of tying something up in CC for a round, only to dart away and blast it but that tactic doesn’t work all that well currently. I would love to see Photon casters and grenades that make our opponents useless in CC for a round.

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Panzer
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#353 » Sep 14 2017 02:34

Eh I don't think the core changes is what puts us in a tough place. It's really mostly that GW decided to overcost all our Battlesuits except for Commander and Stealth Suits. The rest is just mildly annoying.
Oh and our Hammerheads of course. On first glance they look okay but when you compare them to Space Marine Preds and Razorbacks they are just laughably expensive for what they do.

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Glarblar
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#354 » Sep 14 2017 03:13

Deep strike got hella expensive (as you can see from todays reveal 1 CP), thats why xv8s are so overcost. The unfortunate part is that they are our only platform for weapons as well

Folklore
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#355 » Sep 14 2017 03:16

Panzer wrote:Eh I don't think the core changes is what puts us in a tough place. It's really mostly that GW decided to overcost all our Battlesuits except for Commander and Stealth Suits. The rest is just mildly annoying.
Oh and our Hammerheads of course. On first glance they look okay but when you compare them to Space Marine Preds and Razorbacks they are just laughably expensive for what they do.



Agreed, there are some glaringly overcosted/under performing units in our index. The point I am trying to make is the fix isn't as simple as adjusting point costs. I think there are some core T'au things that just don't work in the current game space. Making us super effective in the shooting phase again will only exacerbate the games "Alpha Strike" issues. Commanders, R'varahs, longstrike and gundrones get used because they are consistent in their damage output. Stealth suits, pathfinders and fireblades are point efficient. ~ Everything else is a mess. Im just hoping for a more nuanced codex then everything is BS 3+ and less points.

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Glarblar
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#356 » Sep 14 2017 04:11

Sorry if this is wishlisting but what if:

(1CP) - Vectored Retro-Thrusters
Use this Stratagem in your Assault phase. Select a BATTLESUIT unit that just arrived from Manta Strike, that unit can immediately move as if it were in your movement phase.

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SinisterSamurai
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#357 » Sep 14 2017 04:18

Maybe something like hitting with photon grenades during overwatch prevents pile-in.

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Arka0415
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#358 » Sep 14 2017 06:33

Glarblar wrote:Sorry if this is wishlisting but what if:

(1CP) - Vectored Retro-Thrusters
Use this Stratagem in your Assault phase. Select a BATTLESUIT unit that just arrived from Manta Strike, that unit can immediately move as if it were in your movement phase.


There's no way we're not getting this. It just seems like the Tau strategem!

Ricordis
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#359 » Sep 14 2017 09:03

I'd even delete the "arriving from manta strike" part and make it always usable.
1 CP and you can move your battlesuit unit in the assault phase. But no advance.

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deathboon
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Re: Upcoming T'au Codex

Post#360 » Sep 14 2017 11:02

Things I want to see:

Better support options for commanders than "just take quadfusion"

Cheaper crisis suits

A JSJ strategem: 2cp all fly+battlesuit units w/in x inches of commander y can use it

+1cp per etherial chosen, enemy +1vp per etherial slain

A selection of 1cp stratagems only available w/a friendly etherial on the table, and any number of friendly etherials on the table adds 1 strategem use per turn in any one phase.
This would balance out our lack of psychic phase.

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