Firebade volley rule double check

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Draco023
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Firebade volley rule double check

Post#1 » Nov 14 2017 01:26

I searched for it, but couldn't find an answer, so forgive me if I missed it.

I've been running 2 'fish with a Fireblade as one of the support elements ( full details in a prior post if interested) and I realized something in my last game that I want to make sure I'm doing legally.

The volley fire rule : "Models in <SEPT> units within 6" of any friendly <SEPT> Cadre Fireblade may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half of the weapon's range" only has the criteria of range, weapon type, and sept. Is there any reason that it wouldn't buff the drones while they're still attached, if he's outside of the transport and within 6"? The weapons are carbines, the devilfish is ( potentially) a <sept> unit. Am I missing something or could I be getting an extra 4 shots per fish at BS4+ by leaving the drones attached for the FoF strike? they couldn't provide a screen or charge of course, but bumping those 24 shots ( for both 'fish) up to BS4+ without needing a drone controller is a nice boost!

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Yojimbob
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#2 » Nov 14 2017 01:40

If this works then you could technically get the buff in any of our tidewalls. I'm curious to hear what other people think because I say it does work but that may or may not be correct.

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Beerson
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#3 » Nov 14 2017 01:44

the drones get buffed if they are within 6", nothing really to discuss there...

you can look at it both ways, the devilfish having 4 carbines, it's sept unit, it's within range, it gets 1+ shot per carbine on half range

the drones having the carbines but being embarked, again sept unit within range, gets bonus

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Draco023
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#4 » Nov 14 2017 01:55

Yojimbob wrote:If this works then you could technically get the buff in any of our tidewalls. I'm curious to hear what other people think because I say it does work but that may or may not be correct.


I don't think so, units embarked in a transport can't be buffed AFAIK, it's the fact that the devil fish " is considered to be equipped with the drones weapons" that lets this work. The drones aren't being buffed, it's the 'fish's temporary carbines that are. The reason it can ( maybe) work is the lack of an "infantry" keyword or similar. The drones in a tidewall are still considered their own unit, and so are their carbines

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Draco023
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#5 » Nov 14 2017 01:56

Beerson wrote:the drones get buffed if they are within 6", nothing really to discuss there...

you can look at it both ways, the devilfish having 4 carbines, it's sept unit, it's within range, it gets 1+ shot per carbine on half range

the drones having the carbines but being embarked, again sept unit within range, gets bonus


I thought embarked units couldn't be buffed though?

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Panzer
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#6 » Nov 14 2017 02:21

The two Devilfish Gun Drones aren't embarked. They are part of the Devilfish and the Devilfish counts their Pulse Carbines as his own until they detach.
So yes the Fireblade buffs the Devilfishs Gun Drones as well.

The Drones that are actually embarked don't get anything since they are not on the table and thus not in range. However I don't see how that's important since they can't shoot from inside the Devilfish anyway.^^

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GND
Shas'La
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#7 » Nov 14 2017 02:25

Embarked units are not on the table so they won't benefit from any auras, but the Attached Drones rule on the Devilfish (and other drone carrying vehicles) say that "the <vehicle> is considered equipped with the Drones' weapons". And it is a <Sept> unit, so yes the Fireblades aura would affect it.

This is a nice find, I never realized that. This also opens space for Piranhas supporting a disembarked Fireblade and getting 4 extra shots. Together with a drone cloud, thats a lot of dakka :D

EDIT: Ninja'd

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Draco023
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#8 » Nov 14 2017 02:26

Panzer wrote:The two Devilfish Gun Drones aren't embarked. They are part of the Devilfish and the Devilfish counts their Pulse Carbines as his own until they detach.
So yes the Fireblade buffs the Devilfishs Gun Drones as well.

The Drones that are actually embarked don't get anything since they are not on the table and thus not in range. However I don't see how that's important since they can't shoot from inside the Devilfish anyway.^^



That was my reasoning as well, cheers!

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Panzer
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#9 » Nov 14 2017 02:29

GND wrote:Embarked units are not on the table so they won't benefit from any auras, but the Attached Drones rule on the Devilfish (and other drone carrying vehicles) say that "the <vehicle> is considered equipped with the Drones' weapons". And it is a <Sept> unit, so yes the Fireblades aura would affect it.

This is a nice find, I never realized that. This also opens space for Piranhas supporting a disembarked Fireblade and getting 4 extra shots. Together with a drone cloud, thats a lot of dakka :D

EDIT: Ninja'd

I now want a Fireblade driving around in a Piranha! :D (and also Burst Cannons counting as Pulse weapons again so they'd benefit from the Fireblade buff...)

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Draco023
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#10 » Nov 14 2017 02:32

GND wrote:Embarked units are not on the table so they won't benefit from any auras, but the Attached Drones rule on the Devilfish (and other drone carrying vehicles) say that "the <vehicle> is considered equipped with the Drones' weapons". And it is a <Sept> unit, so yes the Fireblades aura would affect it.

This is a nice find, I never realized that. This also opens space for Piranhas supporting a disembarked Fireblade and getting 4 extra shots. Together with a drone cloud, thats a lot of dakka :D

EDIT: Ninja'd


Oh I like that! Run 1 or 2 Piranhas up along with the Devil fish to fill the gap when the fish fall back, put out 16 shots each at BS4 and then charge the remnants of the target instead of using drones. Next turn lather rinse and repeat!
Not bad for the price of 2ish stealth in a mechanized list.

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Beerson
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#11 » Nov 14 2017 02:35

Panzer wrote:I now want a Fireblade driving around in a Piranha! :D (and also Burst Cannons counting as Pulse weapons again so they'd benefit from the Fireblade buff...)

yeah, that'd be nice, too bad they don't, would make those drone taxi XV25 viable combat units

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Draco023
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Posts: 63

Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#12 » Nov 14 2017 02:36

Panzer wrote:
GND wrote:Embarked units are not on the table so they won't benefit from any auras, but the Attached Drones rule on the Devilfish (and other drone carrying vehicles) say that "the <vehicle> is considered equipped with the Drones' weapons". And it is a <Sept> unit, so yes the Fireblades aura would affect it.

This is a nice find, I never realized that. This also opens space for Piranhas supporting a disembarked Fireblade and getting 4 extra shots. Together with a drone cloud, thats a lot of dakka :D

EDIT: Ninja'd

I now want a Fireblade driving around in a Piranha! :D (and also Burst Cannons counting as Pulse weapons again so they'd benefit from the Fireblade buff...)


For some reason I picture him crouched down on one wing, holding the frame with one hand and pointing at the target with his blade " All your fire, there!" :biggrin:

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Panzer
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#13 » Nov 14 2017 02:37

Unfortunately currently it would probably be better to just take another Devilfish filled with Drones instead of a couple Piranha. ^^

Draco023 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
GND wrote:Embarked units are not on the table so they won't benefit from any auras, but the Attached Drones rule on the Devilfish (and other drone carrying vehicles) say that "the <vehicle> is considered equipped with the Drones' weapons". And it is a <Sept> unit, so yes the Fireblades aura would affect it.

This is a nice find, I never realized that. This also opens space for Piranhas supporting a disembarked Fireblade and getting 4 extra shots. Together with a drone cloud, thats a lot of dakka :D

EDIT: Ninja'd

I now want a Fireblade driving around in a Piranha! :D (and also Burst Cannons counting as Pulse weapons again so they'd benefit from the Fireblade buff...)


For some reason I picture him crouched down on one wing, holding the frame with one hand and pointing at the target with his blade " All your fire, there!" :biggrin:

Awesome! :D

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Draco023
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Posts: 63

Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#14 » Nov 14 2017 02:41

Panzer wrote:Unfortunately currently it would probably be better to just take another Devilfish filled with Drones instead of a couple Piranha. ^^


Mathhammer wise I agree, I just can't let myself use the fish of drones. It bothers me from a fluff perspective. I'm not enough of an expert to say that it should, but it just rubs me the wrong way. Plus I have two piranha doing nothing at the moment :)

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Beerson
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#15 » Nov 14 2017 03:02

Draco023 wrote:Mathhammer wise I agree, I just can't let myself use the fish of drones. It bothers me from a fluff perspective. I'm not enough of an expert to say that it should, but it just rubs me the wrong way. Plus I have two piranha doing nothing at the moment :)


well there's no reason why the drones should not be transported in devilfish, not like they have dedicated trasport of their own, and they are being transported in it with the fire warrior squads anyway

a stand in devilfish model visualy made for drone transport would be fantastic, made me think about converting piranha that way, but unfurtunatelly I don't own one and unless my T'au friend will be willing to sell it to me (or exchange for kroot) I can't see myself buying it anytime soon

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Panzer
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#16 » Nov 14 2017 03:17

Drones in a Devilfish shouldn't really bother you. Gun Drones are a proper fighting force like any other and even get dropped by some flyer without.
Just don't build a list with nothing else than Drones. They are a supposed to support the Fire Caste, not to replace them. ;)

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Draco023
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#17 » Nov 14 2017 03:25

Panzer wrote:Drones in a Devilfish shouldn't really bother you. Gun Drones are a proper fighting force like any other and even get dropped by some flyer without.
Just don't build a list with nothing else than Drones. They are a supposed to support the Fire Caste, not to replace them. ;)



I think that's the issue, the ratio. I have 10 strike team and 2 drones in the fish, with the two from the fish as support, and that just feels right at a 5:2 ratio. 14 drones per fish, 6 per crisis squad, 2 per commander and you've got more AI than flesh on the field. Probably the Dark Age of Technology getting to me lol! Like I said, just a personal fluff issue. I do love my deadly Frisbees, especially when they take the hit.

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Panzer
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Re: Firebade volley rule double check

Post#18 » Nov 14 2017 03:35

Draco023 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Drones in a Devilfish shouldn't really bother you. Gun Drones are a proper fighting force like any other and even get dropped by some flyer without.
Just don't build a list with nothing else than Drones. They are a supposed to support the Fire Caste, not to replace them. ;)



I think that's the issue, the ratio. I have 10 strike team and 2 drones in the fish, with the two from the fish as support, and that just feels right at a 5:2 ratio. 14 drones per fish, 6 per crisis squad, 2 per commander and you've got more AI than flesh on the field. Probably the Dark Age of Technology getting to me lol! Like I said, just a personal fluff issue. I do love my deadly Frisbees, especially when they take the hit.

Nah you can't see it like that. With Strike Teams/Pathfinder you can see it as 1:1 sure, but with the Devilfish and the Crisis you can't really do that. They cost way more points and have a whole different presence on the table. Especially since the two Drones of the devilfish are default and not something you take additionally to him. ;)

Luckily the Dark Age of Technology won't happen to T'au. The Drone AI is very strict and basic and their own doctrines make sure that they are only there to support the actual Cadre instead of replacing them. :D

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