Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#19 » Jan 12 2018 05:55

I been honestly considering the stats of the commander farsight model with the homing beacon in my list. I find it ironic you are using homing beacon, have your screen name, and not including farsight in your list.
Against your MEQ problems , if you homing beacon him in, he does about .92 unsaved wounds in shooting.2.59 unsaved wounds in combat (3.24 if you give him the warlord trait that grants an extra attack). You can also drop farsight directly into CC and avoid overwatch of flamers (useful against vechiles, also note D3 damage profile). You can run him in his own sperate dettachment if you really want to not conflict with commander Shadowsun.
On paper farsight would also be ok against TEQ, and help deal with eldar hard to hit issues.
If your GFC were farsight enclaves, they can be ok in combat combat near farsight, with their four strength 5 @ + 3BS punches. (Basically equal to a singledrone shooting at a 5 markerlight target with a dc nearby)

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#20 » Jan 12 2018 08:25

Lostroninsoul wrote:I been honestly considering the stats of the commander farsight model with the homing beacon in my list. I find it ironic you are using homing beacon, have your screen name, and not including farsight in your list.
Against your MEQ problems , if you homing beacon him in, he does about .92 unsaved wounds in shooting.2.59 unsaved wounds in combat (3.24 if you give him the warlord trait that grants an extra attack). You can also drop farsight directly into CC and avoid overwatch of flamers (useful against vechiles, also note D3 damage profile). You can run him in his own sperate dettachment if you really want to not conflict with commander Shadowsun.
On paper farsight would also be ok against TEQ, and help deal with eldar hard to hit issues.
If your GFC were farsight enclaves, they can be ok in combat combat near farsight, with their four strength 5 @ + 3BS punches. (Basically equal to a singledrone shooting at a 5 markerlight target with a dc nearby)


I own 2 Farsight models and a version of Farsight on foot that goes where the ethereal normally sits in my Manta. I take him (and the manta) in Apoc battles, but for 2000 point games, he is horribly inefficient. I only use him in fluff games. And a single Farsight killing 4 MEQ does not solve my MEQ in cover problem in the slightest. He also wilts in CC just like any other Tau, so if he’s stuck in CC with a lone marine, then a CC unit can easily come in and eat his lunch. His rules need some rework if he’s supposed to be viable in anything other than casual fluffy games.

Also, you can’t deepstrike into CC. I think you still have to follow the movement phase rule of not ending a move within an inch of an enemy model.

I think you all are forgetting the multiple times in canon that Farsight and Shadowsun were fighting on the same side and coming to each other’s rescue even after the Enclaves split off. Farsight doesn’t hate shadowsun, and shadowsun is conflicted about Farsight because of the ethereals.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#21 » Jan 12 2018 08:33

CDR_Farsight wrote:He also wilts in CC just like any other Tau, so if he’s stuck in CC with a lone marine, then a CC unit can easily come in and eat his lunch. His rules need some rework if he’s supposed to be viable in anything other than casual fluffy games.

Do you think he could be useful (not viable, just useful) as melee deterrent? The fact that he could perform a Heroic Intervention could be useful, at least in casual games.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Also, you can’t deepstrike into CC. I think you still have to follow the movement phase rule of not ending a move within an inch of an enemy model.

Yeah, you can't do that, but you can basically guarantee a charge using Stealthsuits. Not a bad trick I guess.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Farsight doesn’t hate shadowsun, and shadowsun is conflicted about Farsight because of the ethereals.

But the Ethereals hate Farsight, and what they say goes :D

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#22 » Jan 12 2018 09:04

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:He also wilts in CC just like any other Tau, so if he’s stuck in CC with a lone marine, then a CC unit can easily come in and eat his lunch. His rules need some rework if he’s supposed to be viable in anything other than casual fluffy games.

Do you think he could be useful (not viable, just useful) as melee deterrent? The fact that he could perform a Heroic Intervention could be useful, at least in casual games.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Also, you can’t deepstrike into CC. I think you still have to follow the movement phase rule of not ending a move within an inch of an enemy model.

Yeah, you can't do that, but you can basically guarantee a charge using Stealthsuits. Not a bad trick I guess.

CDR_Farsight wrote:Farsight doesn’t hate shadowsun, and shadowsun is conflicted about Farsight because of the ethereals.

But the Ethereals hate Farsight, and what they say goes :D


Well I think the Ethereals are wrong! And deep down, I know shadowsun realizes not everything is as it seems. I hold out hope that she will see the truth. The Greater Good comes to all in time. :P
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#23 » Jan 12 2018 09:25

If they gave Farsight a rule that he always got to attack in CC even if reduced to 0 wounds before his turn in the fight phase AND he regenerates a wound for every non-vehicle model slain, that would be a cool fluffy way to represent the dawn blade and allow him to last in CC. I’d find a place for him if he had rules that actually fit the fluff.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#24 » Jan 12 2018 09:30

CDR_Farsight wrote:If they gave Farsight a rule that he always got to attack in CC even if reduced to 0 wounds before his turn in the fight phase AND he regenerates a wound for every non-vehicle model slain, that would be a cool fluffy way to represent the dawn blade and allow him to last in CC. I’d find a place for him if he had rules that actually fit the fluff.

You don't think a couple of mediocre swings are enough for a CC character? :D

Honestly though you're getting at a big problem with the Tau. In order to play a list with characters we like, we need to sacrifice viability. With the exception of Longstrike, Tau characters really aren't that strong. Shadowsun and Farsight are overcosted with little to show for it, Aun'va and Darkstrider are confusingly niche, and Aun'shi is just weird. Meanwhile Imperial armies can field major lynchpin characters like Guilliman, Cawl, Celestine, Draigo, Voldus, etc. It'd be nice to have a real force multiplier unit.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#25 » Jan 12 2018 11:19

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:If they gave Farsight a rule that he always got to attack in CC even if reduced to 0 wounds before his turn in the fight phase AND he regenerates a wound for every non-vehicle model slain, that would be a cool fluffy way to represent the dawn blade and allow him to last in CC. I’d find a place for him if he had rules that actually fit the fluff.

You don't think a couple of mediocre swings are enough for a CC character? :D

Honestly though you're getting at a big problem with the Tau. In order to play a list with characters we like, we need to sacrifice viability. With the exception of Longstrike, Tau characters really aren't that strong. Shadowsun and Farsight are overcosted with little to show for it, Aun'va and Darkstrider are confusingly niche, and Aun'shi is just weird. Meanwhile Imperial armies can field major lynchpin characters like Guilliman, Cawl, Celestine, Draigo, Voldus, etc. It'd be nice to have a real force multiplier unit.


That’s why I got overly excited a couple days ago with Darkstrider combos....turns out he only impacts fire warriors, pathfinders, kroot, and stealthsuits...nothing that really benefits from his buff. I’m really unimpressed by how crappy our character buffs are compared to other armies who have better base stats and have more useable buffs. I only take shadowsun for the two turns of Kauyon and her command link drone. The commander single use master of war nerf was completely unnecessary.

Even longstrike hinders you a bit because to get max effectiveness you need to spend more points than you’d normally like on sub-par vehicles with really unreliable damage outputs.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#26 » Jan 12 2018 12:28

CDR_Farsight wrote:That’s why I got overly excited a couple days ago with Darkstrider combos....turns out he only impacts fire warriors, pathfinders, kroot, and stealthsuits...nothing that really benefits from his buff.


... And Shadowsun

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#27 » Jan 12 2018 02:36

Lostroninsoul wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:That’s why I got overly excited a couple days ago with Darkstrider combos....turns out he only impacts fire warriors, pathfinders, kroot, and stealthsuits...nothing that really benefits from his buff.


... And Shadowsun


Whoopty doo...
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#28 » Jan 12 2018 09:42

CDR_Farsight wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:That’s why I got overly excited a couple days ago with Darkstrider combos....turns out he only impacts fire warriors, pathfinders, kroot, and stealthsuits...nothing that really benefits from his buff.


... And Shadowsun


Whoopty doo...

I just realized something- doesn't Darkstrider massively benefit Kroot? Kroot come in giant squads, and Darkstrider can only buff one squad. In addition, Darkstrider can let them wound on 3+ against MEQs and 2+ against GEQs, which is insane. In addition he can let them fall back and shoot.

A squad of 20 Kroot firing at Guardsmen should get 9 kills. If you add Darkstrider's buff and Markerlight that jumps to 13 kills, which is more than the firepower of 27 Kroot (adding Darkstrider's cost in Kroot).

Not exactly a meta-changing realization but it is interesting.

Also, Darkstrider allows Shadowsun (or Fusion Blaster Stealthsuits) to wound T8 on 3+ which is interesting as well.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#29 » Jan 12 2018 10:54

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:
... And Shadowsun


Whoopty doo...

I just realized something- doesn't Darkstrider massively benefit Kroot? Kroot come in giant squads, and Darkstrider can only buff one squad. In addition, Darkstrider can let them wound on 3+ against MEQs and 2+ against GEQs, which is insane. In addition he can let them fall back and shoot.

A squad of 20 Kroot firing at Guardsmen should get 9 kills. If you add Darkstrider's buff and Markerlight that jumps to 13 kills, which is more than the firepower of 27 Kroot (adding Darkstrider's cost in Kroot).

Not exactly a meta-changing realization but it is interesting.

Also, Darkstrider allows Shadowsun (or Fusion Blaster Stealthsuits) to wound T8 on 3+ which is interesting as well.


Just realized you can’t even use it with Kroot....only works on TAU SEPT INFANTRY....and sadly, Kroot don’t have a SEPT keyword....our characters are downright demoralizing....

Could be good with Breachers though!
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#30 » Jan 12 2018 10:59

CDR_Farsight wrote:Just realized you can’t even use it with Kroot....only works on TAU SEPT INFANTRY....and sadly, Kroot don’t have a SEPT keyword....our characters are downright demoralizing....

Could be good with Breachers though!

I'm not at home right now, don't have the Index handy. If Kroot don't have a SEPT keyword, doesn't that mean any Kroot will break SEPT detachments? And thus any all Tau units in a detachment that includes Kroot will lose their faction special rules? What absolute junk.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#31 » Jan 12 2018 11:18

Arka0415 wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:Just realized you can’t even use it with Kroot....only works on TAU SEPT INFANTRY....and sadly, Kroot don’t have a SEPT keyword....our characters are downright demoralizing....

Could be good with Breachers though!

I'm not at home right now, don't have the Index handy. If Kroot don't have a SEPT keyword, doesn't that mean any Kroot will break SEPT detachments? And thus any all Tau units in a detachment that includes Kroot will lose their faction special rules? What absolute junk.


Yep...under the current understanding of how SEPTS and SEPT rules will work, Kroot AND Vespids both break detachment rules for being able to gain SEPT traits. I guess if you really want them you can take them in their own detachment and just lose the SEPT trait for your detachment HQ....but that means taking 3 units when you may have only wanted 1.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#32 » Jan 14 2018 08:51

CDR_Farsight wrote:Yep...under the current understanding of how SEPTS and SEPT rules will work, Kroot AND Vespids both break detachment rules for being able to gain SEPT traits. I guess if you really want them you can take them in their own detachment and just lose the SEPT trait for your detachment HQ....but that means taking 3 units when you may have only wanted 1.

In my endless optimism, I'm now expecting Kroot detachment rules :)

In reality though, I hope they make exceptions in the Codex, or else nobody's going to take auxiliaries anymore.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#33 » Jan 14 2018 09:06

CDR_Farsight wrote:
Just realized you can’t even use it with Kroot....only works on TAU SEPT INFANTRY....and sadly, Kroot don’t have a SEPT keyword....our characters are downright demoralizing....

Could be good with Breachers though!


You are correct. Sadly the only HQs that really benefit Kroot are Ethereals and Commander Shadowsun.

I don't know how other players would feel about a non-named character being assigned to an Auxiliary force and taking their keyword. I am pretty sure a lot of players would feel that giving a Coldstar Commander <Vespid> in place of a <Sept> would be pushing it too far - although organisationally that is not far from how historical imperial forces have operated (e.g. British Gurkha regiments). My coldstar happens to be modelled as a female Vespid but even so I have not tried to push my luck with it (yet).

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Arka0415
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#34 » Jan 14 2018 09:23

nic wrote:I don't know how other players would feel about a non-named character being assigned to an Auxiliary force and taking their keyword. I am pretty sure a lot of players would feel that giving a Coldstar Commander <Vespid> in place of a <Sept> would be pushing it too far - although organisationally that is not far from how historical imperial forces have operated (e.g. British Gurkha regiments). My coldstar happens to be modelled as a female Vespid but even so I have not tried to push my luck with it (yet).

My assumption would be just elevate Kroot Shapers to HQs and you can make Kroot detachments. Vespid... not quite sure how that'd work.

However if the rumors are correct and Tau are getting something "not strictly part of the Empire", maybe the Kroot and Vespid keywords are part of that? Just wild speculation here.

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BibiFloris
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Re: Farsight: Shadow of the Manta

Post#35 » Jan 14 2018 09:40

Yep...under the current understanding of how SEPTS and SEPT rules will work, Kroot AND Vespids both break detachment rules for being able to gain SEPT traits. I guess if you really want them you can take them in their own detachment and just lose the SEPT trait for your detachment HQ....but that means taking 3 units when you may have only wanted 1.


It will probably work like GW did with the Astra militarum auxiliaries. Make it so that the don't dirupt the <regiment> bonus but also not benefit from it.
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